beginner advice

C

cpc

Member
i have a used m-audio mobile pre and a pg 48 microphone that i've been using with various free multitrack recorders and softsynths and feel it's time to step up to the next level.

i don't want anything super fancy.. but enough to get goodquality results.

i have about 750-1000 bucks to spend right now and was wondering what the best things would be to upgrade? i'm primarily a vocalist but enjoy songwriting and making "beats" with various softsynths as well.

a couple things i've been looking at

mbox mini (comes with protools le) + reason 4 + m audio axiom 25 + shure sm 57 mic + sony mdr7506 headphones

or

keep my mobile pre + record/reason4 bundle + m audio axiom 25 + shure sm 57 mic + sony mdr7506 headphones


which "starter kit" do you think would be the best for a beginner? is it necessary to upgrade my mobile pre to a 24 bit interface? will pro tools le be better for my songwriting/recording purposes than propellerhead record?

any other advice appreciated
 
OK- Here's my answer.

First, is Pro Tools necessary? No. In the day, it was the software system that the big studios used. You can get excellent results with Reason, Reaper, Cubase, or many other current audio processing software systems. Just export WAV. files, and anybody can dump them into whatever software they use. BTW, I am not down on Pro Tools, I use it myself. It's just not the big deal it once was.

Second, do you need to upgrade to 24bit? No. Plenty of platinum hits have been recorded in 16bit/44.1kHz. But you probably will end up with higher bit depth and resolution, anyway, just because most current interfaces support it.

So what *is* a big deal? Your front end., and probably your room. It sounds like you don't anticipate the need for a bunch of channels, but you should have at least 2 good ones. I would advocate more like 8, because at some time in the future, you may want your "beats" to just be a drummer. Either way, on your stated budget, you have a golden opportunity to upgrade your preamps and your mics, which will do lots more for your sound than changes in bit depth and audio processing software.

If I were in your position, I would spend about half of my budget on a new interface, and the other half on a pair of mics. The interface could be lots of stuff. Virtually anything you get would be an upgrade, preamp wise. Consider Focusrite Saffire Pro24, Presonus FireStudio Project, M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R. If you decide you really only need 2 channels, look at M-Audio ProFire610, Presonus FireStudio Mobile, Motu UltraLite mk3 Hybrid, Focusrite Saffire 6 USB. BTW, most of my suggestions assume you have a computer that is firewire capable.

Next, get some mics! You are the proud owner of one of the most useless mics on the planet. Sell it for anything you can get for it to cut your losses. I would recommend a real good dynamic and a good cheap condenser. For the dynamic, it's almost no contest. Shure SM7b. However, I would also consider a good deal on a Sennheiser MD421, if you find one. The Shure is more intended for vocals, though, and may be better for your purposes. Then get a good cheap condenser. Your budget will support either a "pretty good" condenser and a cheap dynamic, or a *damn good* dynamic and an "OK" condenser, and I believe that is the better choice. That said, my choice for a cheap vocal condenser is Marshall Electronics V67G.

That's my best gear advice, and you are at less than $1000 for any of those combinations. Then, start considering the room that you are recording in, and how it can be modified to sound better. Best of luck-Richie
 
thanks a lot for the detailed response

my problem with that suggestion is that i really want to step up from audacity to get a good program for recording my vocals, as well as creating beats. also i don't have a midi controller yet. first and foremost i really want an environment that allows me to freely create and record songs.. and i don't feel audacity provides me with that.

the reason + record combo will fill that need.. and is only 400 dollars bundled.

which now seems like my best option given your opinion (or lack there of) on the mbox as an upgrade. as the main reason i would get it is for protools.

so now that that's taken care of, THEN comes improving quality.
so that leaves 600 dollars max. if i put 100 dollars on a decent vocal mic then 200-500 dollars is left in my budget.


so with 200-500 dollars, which of the following should i upgrade first?

my interface
a preamp
a midi controller
a 2nd mic
headphones (my current ones are 10 dollar busted up sony's :(
 
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* why dont you try Reaper instead of Reason and Record :) it's easy and very cheap, but also very effective tool.
* another thing is that you should get monitor speakers to hear exactly what you are doing.
* MDR-7506's are pretty good choice in my opininon.
* pretty decent microphone choice would be AKG Perception 220, but then you will need also popshield and mic stand. (m-audio mobile pre should have phantom power so no new interface is needed)
*axiom 25 can be little bit limiting because of its short keyboard

now, if you have 1000 bucks then:
Reaper 70$ + MDR's 130$ + AKG 190$ + popshield and mic stand ~70$ = ~460$!
In that way you have about 540$ for monitors (and midi keyboard:P)
 
OK CPC, I got that you think Audacity is limiting. Please define what specific features you are looking for in a recording software package that you don't get in Audacity. It doesn't sound like you are looking for large numbers of simultaneous track inputs, and the plugins to do whatever you want are easily obtained. You appear to be more concerned with where the music is going than where it's coming from, and that confuses me.-Richie
 
i don't feel i can freely create music on audacity. i want to create music on my computer.. not just record it.

1 - i can't use softsynths with audacity.. this makes it hard to create drum tracks, bass lines, etc.. i've downloaded free ones and recorded them into audacity which is a very tedius process with very "lacking" results. i want some high quality sounds and high quality effects in my programs to get some good results. but most of all i just want to be able to quickly lay down my creative thoughts via software instruments without stuff getting in my way. being able to record vocals and softsynths in the same program would be awesome.. as sometimes i hum a melody in my head, then record drums to it, then more vocals , then add bass, etc etc. being able to do this without switching between 100 programs and constantly exporting tracks would be awesome.

2- i want to be able to use a keyboard to control the sounds i make, but also have a sophisticated midi editor to make changes to what i recorded.

3. once again, there are no effects in audacity. my vocals sound very unnatural when recorded. i want a program that can compress, add reverb, eq, etc. i'm sure some of it is my poor mic too.. but the vocal track stands out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the track.


i want to use this program to learn how to do everything as i go along. audacity it takes me hours just to create something because i'm switching in and out of countless windows trying to create and record things. it is a sound recorder .. not a music creating program. once again, i want to create music on my computer, not record bands already finished songs.

in order of importance of what i want to accomplish with my software (and hardware)

1-create/write songs
2-record good quality vocals
3-edit/mix various softsynths/vocals to make the track/beat sound good
 
Get Reaper for a start off. It's a free trial but the trial never runs out or gives you limitations on what you can do with it. If you do buy a license, it's only a small part of your allotted cash for spending.

Audacity is good for some things, but definitely not for multi-tracking!

I'll let others advise you on the rest. I use a M-Audio 24/96 with a DMP3 and a Studio Projects VTB1 and a Studio Projects B1 LC Mic. Does the job for me :D
 
OK, thanks for the clear answer. I won't attempt to address goals #1 and #3, as it's not what I do, and I would just give you BS. I record real sound in real acoustic space. I'm not criticizing your goals, they just aren't mine. As far as #2 goes, I know a fair amount about recording vocals, and although compression, reverb, delay, etc. may come into it, it *is* real acoustic sound in real acoustic space. Without upgrading your mic, your preamp, and addressing the acoustic space in which you record, no computer program on Earth will achieve your goal, at least until a credible vocal generation software is created (don't hold your virtual breath).
I do understand that the ballgame changes when you are trying to *create* music in a computer, because that *is* where the music is coming from. I'll leave the software side of it to the techno-folks, and when you have reached the point where your tracks sound fine, and the vocals still suck, go back and read what I wrote above. It may be more relevent to you when you are at that stage. It sounds like what you need right now is a good MIDI controller, a boatload of samples, and a software program that can run them. I'm not sure ProTools is the best choice, because it limits you to ProTools compatible hardware, although there are more choices than there used to be. I expect that others here will offer you good advice on computer-based composition. And- a higher bit depth and resolution *might* be relevent for your specific application. Best of luck.-Richie
 
thanks for the helpful response yet again. i've already saved your first response so i can look back on it. it's just that i value #1 much more than #2 in terms of my budget. i want good quality vocals, but not perfect/amazing/stuido quality quite yet. hopefully a decent 100 dollar sm 58 or marshall condenser will be good as i learn mixing/editing/effects etc .. then i can go back and upgrade the preamp/room /or mic even further. but i don't feel i'm at that point yet where a 500 dollar mic / preamp will make a noticeable difference for me.


as for software, i've pretty much narrowed it down between reason/record and cubase 5 now. if anyone can share opinions.

-reason/record seems to be more "ready" out of the box.. but doesn't support other vsti's and has some limitations from what i've read (especially with editing audio.) if someone can share their experience with record i would be grateful.

-cubase on the other hand seems to excell at both, and support vsti's... but is more expensive and doesn't come with quality music/beat making sounds out of the box. which would cost even more money or digging around for free vstis.

which one of these 2 routes do you feel is better for someone just getting started?


edit- i just tried the record/reason demo and enjoyed it quite a bit.. but i did notice lack of .wav editing features, even some that audacity had that it doesn't. this program seems to be exactly what i want in terms of "creating" music.. but lacks the final editing i want.

i can't seem to find a cubase demo.. i assume it is better at mixing/editing .. but how is it for actually creating music?
 
in my opinion cubase piano roll is little bit bad, but otherwise it's pretty good.

but still... why don't you try Reaper?
 
Seidy said:
in my opinion cubase piano roll is little bit bad, but otherwise it's pretty good.

but still... why don't you try Reaper?
Click to expand...

because from what i've seen it lacks in the software synths/instruments/beat making so i will be more than likely purchasing reason or some other soft synths anyway. i'll try the demo of that though too thanks for the suggestion
 
i notice a pretty noticeable hissing in my mobile pre pre amps when i turn them past 2/3rds or so . i heard sm57 mics are quiet and need a lot of gain .. will my pre's be good enough to increase the signal on the sm57 without inserting a ton of hiss? would it be worth spending 200 bucks for the Focusrite Saffire 6 USB or would that be more of a step sideways than an upgrade? or would i be be better off with a condenser like the v67g at this budget since it needs less gain ?
 
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