Beefy Drum Sound?

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Drek

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Hey!

So i'm looking to find a way to get that big beefy drum sound on recordings. I'm still learning this stuff and i'm not sure how you get it whether it's through good external pre's, eq, compression, plug ins etc. I know it's a combination off all that -- but of what primarily?

I have a really good sounding acoustic kit with some pretty good mics and a decent interface. They sound good an all but not that Big bold sound i'm looking for.

Ideas?
Thanks!
 
That big sound is a combination of things. And it's an illusion.

If what you mean by "really good sounding acoustic kit" is that you have your drums tuned to ring a lot and sound really open and big, that's part of the battle. New heads can be a big help. If you have a really good acoustic kit with 6 year old hydraulic heads and the o-rings and the napkins and the gaff tape and the moongel all over the place, try getting rid of all that stuff. It will make your drums sound bigger.

Mic placement is a critical issue. If you're not sure about it, experiment. Grab one microphone. The best one you have. ONLY one microphone.

1. Put it somewhere
2. Record something
3. Assess what it sounds like
4. Put it somewhere else
5. Repeat steps 2 through 4

Barring anything silly like putting an expensive mic in harms way where it's going to be damaged, you should be able to find a few spots where you get a good, balanced representation of the entire kit. You'll find other spots that might leave something to be desired, but they might bring something else to the table. An overhead mic above the drum kit can give a good representation of the entire thing. Putting the same mic say 2 to 4 feet in front of the kit looking slightly over the kick, kind of aimed at the rack tom(s) and/or snare can give you a good representation of the entire thing. But it will sound totally different than the overhead. Try the mic from either side of the kit. Try it behind the kit. If you get too much of some things and not enough of other things, keep moving the mic until you get a good balance of everything.

The beauty of doing this is that once you record the same kit with the same player in a different room (or even a different spot in the same room) the very best, ultimate mic placement that you found earlier won't always work. Developing your ears to hear what sounds good or not and moving the mic to get there is a valuable skill to develop rather than just relying on formulas or pictures of how someone else did it.

Once you've exhausted this approach, you might want to try more than one mic. A pair of overheads is common. Some people like x/y stereo. Some people like spaced pairs. These aren't the only options. You might like to have a combination of the sounds coming from above the kit and off to the side of the floor tom. This is starting to sound a bit like the Glyn Johns/Recorderman/John Holmes paint by numbers mic scheme. Hey, if it works for you that's fine.

Once you start to combine 2 mics, check to make sure they're both in phase with each other. If they sound wonky and phasey, adjust the placement very slightly to get rid of the phase cancellation. You will never completely get rid of all of it, just go for a happy balance. Find the best compromise you can.

Once you get up to 17 microphones on the kit, each mic will want to eat a portion of the signal coming from all the other mics. Compare this recording to the one you did with just one mic. Ask yourself which one sounds bigger.

Consider the sound of the room. Is it a church? Is it a walk in closet? Is there lots of concrete? Taming nasty reflections in a less than ideal recording space might be beneficial. Room acoustics. Heavy curtains. Bass traps. Packing blankets. Carpet. Important things to consider. It's not quite as simple as getting the room live or dead.

Putting up a room mic might help to add a sense of space and depth. People make odd suggestions for room mics. This really expensive ribbon, or that super nice condenser set to omni might make a nice room mic. Better yet, those are probably the mics you would have good luck with using as overheads or overall kit pickup. Some people that do this recording stuff for a living would be inclined to use some of the cheapest, nastiest sounding mics available to them as room mics. Placement is critical of course. Here are some descriptions I've seen:

- an SM57 in front of a gobo in front of the kit, aimed away from the kit

- a pair of karaoke mics in ORTF placed above and behind the kit in the corner where the wall meets the ceiling

- a mic out in the hall to the lounge (ie. room mic not in the same room)

Basically what room mics are supposed to do is give a sense of space. They aren't intended to pick up the direct sound of the kit. They're intended to pick up reflections. Annihilating the output of these mics with a compressor might be an interesting idea as well. If they don't sound ANYTHING like your kit, that's probably okay as long as you can blend a bit of this signal with the proper drum sounds and get some kind of a sense of space or bigness happening. Hopefully with very minimal phase artifacts. If you want to try a really nice mic from farther away, not in a weird position or with anything funky going on, that's probably okay too but it might sound a bit more like a simple delay. If that's what you want you can probably just play around with adding delay to your sounds, but that's usually not what room mics are about.

Parallel compression on close mic sources like kick and snare is another thought.

But getting back to the core of the original question, it's mostly about whether or not the kit sounds truly big in the room. The right heads, tuning and room acoustics are the most critical factors. If you end up finding a bunch of tricks to make the drums come out sounding artificially bigger, hopefully there's room in the mix you're trying to achieve for that kind of approach to actually work.
 
The thing is i have good sounding drums, good mics, good mic placement, good room etc. The recordings are pretty good too what i'm looking to do is find a way to take that and beef it up.

I'm wondering if running the mics through a good preamp will help or if its through something else that's added after the recording such as lots of eq or plugins. I know it's a combination but of what will primarily achieve what i'm looking for? Right now i just have the mics going straight into my interface (Tascam us-1641) and into the computer. So it's pretty plain. Ideas?

Thanks
 
The secret to getting a "beefy" drum sound isn't so much what you do with the drums, but what you do with the mix. If the drums are being overpowered and overshadowed by the other instruments, then those other instruments are being mixed too loud and panned in the wrong place. Adjust.........?
 
The thing is i have good sounding drums, good mics, good mic placement, good room etc. The recordings are pretty good too what i'm looking to do is find a way to take that and beef it up.

So if all that other stuff is good to go- then what do you feel might constitute 'beef you're looking for or is missing? Now you could be talking about your drum sound before its mixed in', but sometimes -well more than sometimes- a thing's sound is also context- what's surrounding it, what's masking/blending, where it's placed among these other things.
I mean, it seems intuitive to say beefier' and there's a certain amount of implied image there but without context- it's pretty wide open.
 
The secret to getting a "beefy" drum sound isn't so much what you do with the drums, but what you do with the mix. If the drums are being overpowered and overshadowed by the other instruments, then those other instruments are being mixed too loud and panned in the wrong place. Adjust.........?

Ah, we're one a similar tack.. :drunk:

What was once thick and beefy' solo may be dull and 'not cut mixed.
Or vise versa..
 
The thing is i have good sounding drums, good mics, good mic placement, good room etc. The recordings are pretty good too what i'm looking to do is find a way to take that and beef it up.

I'm wondering if running the mics through a good preamp will help or if its through something else that's added after the recording such as lots of eq or plugins. I know it's a combination but of what will primarily achieve what i'm looking for? Right now i just have the mics going straight into my interface (Tascam us-1641) and into the computer. So it's pretty plain. Ideas?

Thanks

If the drum sounds are good, why would you need lots of eq? There aren't any magic drum presets. Except maybe Drumagog or something like that.

Rimshot and Mixsit raised good points. You want the drums to sound bigger. Since drums have a lot of transient content going on, if your overall mix is fairly loud there's a good chance that other things are going to eclipse the drums if it's a dense mix. Shooting for lower mix levels overall might help. I'm guessing because nobody has heard what you're talking about exactly.

Gotta balance the mix.

And yes, a better preamp/chain might help but not if there's something else wrong before the signal hits the preamp.

Did you try parallel compression? I'm assuming you do have access to a compressor plugin in your DAW...
 
Yes "Beefy" is quite an awesome description isn't it? lol. Hard to explain it exactly but it seems you understand. Everyone votes Mix and mix i shall! I've been reading and experimenting for so long and it's always something simple it seems--not that mixing is simple for its a rather fine art. And yeah i forgot that getting it sounding awesome solo will be different than with the rest of the mix...shame on me :P

K thanks everyone i think i know what i need to work on.

Cheers!
 
IMO it all starts with the room, followed by tuning, the drummer, mic selection/placement, & pre-amps. If you skimp on anyone of these items, you ultimately give up something in the way of "quality".
 
So, you want beefy drum sounds?

I dunno- maybe calf-skin drum heads?
 
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