Beatles Sounding Recordings

  • Thread starter Thread starter crawdad
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Mig27--Thanks for all that info. I am still a little foggy, but I'll tell you what. Let me see if I can snag one and if I can, I could sure use your help. Don't know my 0V's from my PSU's (among other things!) Did yours come with a power supply, or did you have to build or buy one?

OK, Scriabian. I'll take the plunge and ask what you are talking about. Is this that modded DBX card? Or something else? By the way, your bass EQ suggestions were helpful.

C7sus--I read that The tweed Champ was used extensively on Layla. Its more like 5 watts, give or take a watt. They are definitely cool for recording!

I can't verify for sure, but that Revolution guitar sounds like it went through the board rather than a small amp. Just my opinion.

The deeper I get investigating all this stuff, I find myself developing a lust for Hofner basses, Gretch and Rickenbacker guitars, mellotrons, old studio gear--maybe even a sitar and tabla....somebody stop me before I start putting backwards messages in these corporate tracks...

I listened to Revolver for the first time in about three years last night. I was absolutely floored at how each track was so different and how creative it all was. Still makes me shake my head in wonder.
 
Relax, I'm not selling anything;)

I just didn't want to go into the details of it unless anyone was interested, that's all. So anyways, I picked up this tip a while ago and it seems that it's a trick that's been used across the board by great engineers such as George Martin. It involves taking an old sony noise reduction box, a cat 22 card and a slight modification.

(this was taken from recorderman on recording.org)
Here it goes:

" It involves using a modified DOLBY A card.
Either in recording or mixing you send an Aux send to the modified Cat22 card (usually in a 361 module) and return it to your mix "around" -10 relative to the source. Dolby's job is to Expand the top end on signals below the threshold. That means "air" when the singer is softer, and not brittle when there loud. It is much more subtle and cool than anything aphex ever dreamed up (excepting MAYBE there tube beta version). The reason to use a modified Cat22 card is to bypass the Lo & Lo mid compression circuits so that it only affects the top end. I know how to do the mod. I'm not a Tech per say...but I can do this. I'm NOT in this for a buck...I'm just trying to be nice and pass along good stuff...giving back, that sort of thing. But, this is as close as you can get to a "secret" trick that you've heard on more than a few records. It lets you "hear the tonsils" so to speak, and you can pull the vocal down into the track farther because it sounds apparrently louder.

First, a little history.
Ray Dolby was an engineer in the aeronautics biz (if I'm not mistaken) who came up with the brilliant concept of noise reduction. Basically the way dolby works is to make things brighter (especially up in the frequencies where tape hiss redsides) when you "encode"(read:record) with it. Then when you "decode" (read:playback), it dulls things just as much as it has previously brighted them. This in effect lowers the tape hiss level.
Now, in the sixties, the Beatles palyed around with the original 2 track version of this, the Dolby 201 or Dolby Stretch as it was known. Big grey units ( I think like 6 spaces...I haven't seen one in a while and I'm working from memory). Anyway, since they liked to break everything to see what would happen, ect. They started to use it to encode only. Not only that...they found that by removing several of the cards (thereby passing the lo / lomid compression) they could get it to not "pump."

Fastforward, many years, to a time I don't know exactly when....Keith Olsen, a BIG name from the '70's/'80's had a nice dinner with George Martin and plied him as to the "secret" of those breathy Beatle vocals. George alluded to the Dolby Stretch.
Keith, being very good with the electrical engineering end (not to metion the producing/arranging/recording & mixing ends)
deciphered how to do this with a Dolby Cat.22 card, which was at the time the more cost effecttive and ubiquitous version of the older Dolby 201. He found out how to mod these cards so that they do not pump.

You need a Dolby Cat.22 card, probably had for about $100 last time I checked. This goes into a dolby 361 module, another couple hundred for one of these. You can try it , and get an idea of it, without the mod...but it isn't quite the same.

Anyway, if your mixing. Send and aux of the Lead vocal to the Dolby361/Cat22. into the line in. take the "to record" out and bring it up on the desk. Relativr return volumn will be in the -6 to -10 db area. The 361 sholud be set to normal encoding.

This is truelly a cool effect. Since it is level dependent expansion, you get more "air " the sofer they sing, end less effect when there over the "0db" threshold. Therefore, playing with the aux send (sendind less input makes the Dolby work more,i.e. more "air")."

...now i saw these units going on ebay for under $200 dollars with the cat cards. However, I personally don't know how to do the mod but it relatively easy, you just take the ends of two resitors and desoldered them. Then you jump the resisitors with wires to other locations on the circuit board.
I'll post more info detailing the actual mod process once I find it.

Something you definitely might want to look into.
 
So basically you get the highs to expand but not the mid and lows of the source. Because the expansion shadows the hiss the highs seem clearer, louder but are kept in control if the volume of the source goes up.

Did I get that right?

Also, can't we do the same thing today with multiband compression which targets specific frequencies.

Thanks for the tip by the way.
 
PSU for V276

crawdad,

don't worry - you won't have to build a PSU.
a regular 24V DC power supply will be just fine - can be found at radio shack and the likes. just make sure it's regulated and has low ripple (i. e. clean DC).
the more esotheric ones among us might say you shouldn't buy a PSU from the shelf because of its low quality. but I have perfect results with my 10.00 $ wall plug PSU. no hum etc.

if ever you happen to buy a V276, feel free to contact me - I'll help you out.

best.


michael
 
Paul Rothchild used the same "level-dependent, treble boost" from Dolby encode cards on some of the early Doors' recordings. In the 70's, Teac made several stand alone Dolby Type 2 encode/decode units which you can easily find for cheap on ebay and electronic flea markets.
 
Panning is one of the keys to getting the sound...probably not the most important. I noticed that Paul McCartney's newest album "Driving Rain" has a few tracks that dare pan the whole drum kit to the side, bass off center and it actually sounds fresh and exciting versus the rather boring mixes that people nowdays seem to have taken an oath to reproduce (bass, kick, snare and lead vocals ALWAYS in the center, tom-toms spread out too wide in the stereo spectrum, etc.).

In one sense, to be like the Beatles you have to sometimes break the rules!
 
revolution guitar

Here is the answer from "The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions"

"The guitars were put through the recording console, which was technically not the thing to do. It completely overloaded the channel and produced the fuzz sound."
 
Whyte Ice, very cool site. Did you listen to any of the webmaster's (SpinalCracker) versions of Beatle tunes? He pretty much nailed them.
 
Yea, I think spinalcracker is one of the best Beatle cover bands out there. I e-mailed him once to ask how it was done but I never got a reply.
 
hey, that Beatles site is real nice.

But can someone help understand the charts they use when analysing the songs?

For example this one is taken from the Love Me Do analysis:

The music continues on with just the same two chords from the intro. Note how the break of the regular harmonic rhythm in measures 7 - 9 (on the elongation of the word "please") enhances the impact of the irregular phrasing:


------ 3X -----
----- 2X -----
|G
|C
||C
|-
|-
||G
|C
|
G:
I
IV

Or this one in It's Only Love:

- The refrain is eight measures long and built out of two roughly parallel phrases that are equal in length. The first phrase leads into the second one exactly the same way it itself had been set up by the verse ending. The second phrase leads back toward the following verse with its ending on V:


|B-flat
|G
|C
|a
|
flat-VII
V
I
vi
6 -> 5
|B-flat
|G
|F
|G
|

flat-VII
V
IV
V


How do you read these?
Thanks in advance, Andrés
 
have to admit, I am a bit confused by the posted changes, but since I started this thread, maybe I can help you out with the roman numeral thing.

In the "number system", the chords are based off of the scale of the key. If you are in C, you have a scale made up of C,D,E,F,G,A, B and returning to C an octave higher. Thus, each step is I, II, III, IV, etc.

In the key of C, a I is a C chord, a IV is an F chord and a V is a G chord. Usually if a chord is minor (IIm) they put an "m" after it. In diatonic harmony, the II, III, and VI are minor. If you see a bVII, that means a Bb chord in the key of C. A III chord would be E major unless specified as a minor, minor 7th, major 7th or some other form.

Anyway, using the number system is a quick way to allow you to transpose from one key to another, as in " its a II-V-I in the key of F".
 
We got it slightly different in my college jazz band.In the key of C:the pattern D minor G seven and C major would be ii-V7-I,where upper case indicates major and lower case is minor.
Note the vi chord in Its Only Love,which would be an A minor in the key of C,which I think is actually the correct key for this tune.
 
forget it, that site has a bug and it prints the diagrams wrong. There are others who has it right.
Cheers, Andrés
 
Scriabin said:


I realize that. I was being devilish and sarcastic;) Please forgive me but there is no way your going to get the beatles sound without their equipment. You could probably get a "beatley" sound if you invested in a soundelux e47 and a u99, a chandler emi tg pre and their emi tg limiter.
Set realistic goals, there's no way your going to actually approximate the "fidelity" of each record.

however, I do know of an inexpensive trick that george martin used on all the beatles vocals that gave them that great open sound and always cut through the mix...let me know if you want to know how it was achieved...it involves an old sony noise reduction unit and some slight modifications. Overall about $300 to get an absolutely amazing vocal processor and your vocals will sound great...
Click to expand...

you should hear sweet baby jesus.. a late 80's punk band that sounded like the beatles.. a lot of the sound comes from the players.. and the first beatles albums arent something i would a/b genelecs and krk's or what not with..
 
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