Bass Guitar Recording

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James K

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Hi,
this is my first post. I've been reading these forums for ages now but I thought it was time to join and get some advice. I've been recording for a few years now but I still haven't worked out how to record a decent bass guitar sound. For my bands first album I just DI'd the bass through a preamp (behringer MIC200). It sounded okay but not particuarly great. I want a sound that's clear, full and steady. One that stands out the mix even on small speakers and has a good, solid low end but isn't too boomy and bass heavy. I can only seem to get a really weak sound that gets lost in the mix or overloads the speakers when I turn it up. I've tried mic'ing with an AKG D112 and an SM57 and compressing and also DI'ing and compressing but neither gives a good sound.

I'm using a Hofner violin bass with flatwound strings and i have an Ampeg BA115 which I like the sound of. I'm recording using a Fostex R8 with a Fostex 812 desk. I've got Behringer MIC200 preamps and a behringer tube composer compresser. Microphone wise, I have a couple of Oktava MK-219s, an SM57 and an AKG D112.

I hope I've given enough info. Any tips and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
Welcome to the ZOO James.

Have you tried to roll off the low end of your bass while recording?






:cool:
 
I've tried rolling it off the amp when mic'ing but the bass itself doesn't kick out much low end so it usually needs rolling on when DI'ing. It cleans up the speaker blowing boom when I turn the bass down but then it leaves the rest of the sound really thin like it's coming out a radio. I get the boom on some notes whilst others lack bass, it's this inconsistancy that's a lot of the problem I think.
 
I think you have to set up your bass a little bit better ... ie. the problem may be the pick ups and individual screw height.






:cool:
 
I also mostly use my solid body bass with flatwounds for lots of THUMP and low-end fullness, and I only apply a touch of compression when I mix down, and that's also when I shape the EQ as needed.

I go DI with the bass for just about everything.
The DI/preamp is going to matter (just like different mics matter) especially when doing bass DI.
 
Then maybe you should look into getting a Sans Amp di. they have never failed me.






:cool:
 
Hey...are you stalking me from thread to thread...or are we the only two up early on Sunday morning? :D

Yeah...the Sans Amp is nice, I have the guitar version, but I did some tracking once where the bass player had the bass version. We miked his amp and also ran the Sans Amp DI. We ended up keeping the DI track. :)
 
miroslav said:
Hey...are you stalking me from thread to thread...or are we the only two up early on Sunday morning? :D

Yeah...the Sans Amp is nice, I have the guitar version, but I did some tracking once where the bass player had the bass version. We miked his amp and also ran the Sans Amp DI. We ended up keeping the DI track. :)
Click to expand...

Just stalking :laughings:

There are a few other dis worth mentioning like the LA braggs and Radial.

I have an allergy attach and couldn't sleep all night.:( Damn Ragweed!
I usually like to sleep in on Sunday.






:cool:
 
I didn't sleep much on Friday night....so yesterday I walked around with a hangover-like vibe all day. :(
Finally grabbed a nap in the afternoon and that helped a little.
Yeah...allergies can be a PITA! :mad:

For the bass...I use one of my mic pres that have DI options. I have a couple that just work really well on bass.
 
Well...they're a few more clams than the Behringer stuff...I almost hate mentioning them. :)

My Sebatron preamp has a sweet DI.
I also recently got a Groove Tubes SuPRE which has a killer DI, especially for bass (according to reviews)...and it might end up being my new fave, but I have yet to track with it to know for sure.
Both are tube based.

Then there is a little known company here in the USA - LA Audio - which is an English-based audio gear manufacturer. I picked up two pairs of their MLX20 preamps (a solid state pre) and one of their TCX20 comps (a tube comp) when the US distribution ended and they cleared them out back around 2002/3.
This isn't very high-end, $$$ stuff...but sounds pretty decent. The preamp has a DI and it just sounded real good on bass.
You can still find the LA Audio stuff on eBay...but it's no longer sold in the USA.
 
I went DI on my interface and wasn't real happy with my tone either.It was okay but i get a better tone by going through my digitech guitar pedal's direct option.I apply some eq to get a little better tone and also roll off the bridge pickup tone knob by half.This helps keeping it from getting too boomy.

I also go with a slight bit of compression from the pedal because i have a hard time playing bass and it helps smooth up my playing.I tend to play the easier parts a little louder and the troublsome parts usually come out a little softer otherwise.

I've also bought the felt picks to help get a smoother attack and more of a finger feel.I'm a guitar player and playing with a regular pick was giving me a real annoying scrape at times.It would come out sounding distorted in a bad way.I wouldn't notice it while tracking but it stuck out during playback.

I know it's suggested to use stuff like compression in the box but i gotta do what works for me right now.I may reget it later.It's a little conflicting at times cause i'll read it's best to get the best possible sound before hitting record.I agree with that.

Then everyone says it's best to apply processing in the box.I agree with that also but you can sometimes get away with a touch of compression.Bottom line is you just gotta experiment and see what works best for you.
 
Also don't forget that the actual position in front of the speaker makes a big difference, closer to the centre more tops less bass (boom) towards the speaker edge more bass less tops.

I nearly always record a DI and a Mic track, mix the 2 together to get the sound you want. Make sure they are in phase.

When I mix I EQ the separate tracks, see what they sound like together, blend the 2 tracks in a sub group, return the group to a channel, final eq tweak the channel and insert compression.

If you have to blend the mic and DI during recording, just eq the separate tracks before recording until it sounds good, then you can final eq and compress during mixing.

However if the bass guitar and the amp sound like rubbish you are recording rubbish, bass set up correctly, good strings, nice amp settings = good recording.

Bass is one of the hardest things to get right, and I'm a bass player as well as an engineer.

Cheers

Alan.
 
Try the Behri VTone BDI21
It's cheap & really rather good.
Flat wounds on the Hofner won't give you much definition. It'd be a great live thump in the chest sound but hard to mix well in a recording.
You should borrow another bass - seriously.
OR
Swap round wounds for the flats
OR
Get the Behri BDI21, split the signal, record the DI AND the mic'd signals then blend. (cheapest option really)
I use flats on my big thin line semi acoustic bass & it sounds feels great but records poorly.
I use roundwounds on my soild body bass. - I when I don't have time to record both methods & blend I often get satisfactory results with just the Behri.
 
Thanks for all the replies,
I'm pretty pleased with the sound I get from the amp, it's just recording it that causes the problem. I'm recording with a bit of compression as I only have one two channel compressor and need it for vocals when mixing.

rayc, I think you may be right about the bass. I've been thinking it myself for a while now. It gives a great sound live, loads of bass 'smack' that fills the venue and makes the whole band sound big but yes, it's hard to make it sit in the recording. I imagine it's because that big bottom end just doesn't get reproduced and there isn't enough edge to let it cut through the mix. I've been thinking that maybe a Precision would be a better choice for recording.

I'm going to spend a day soon messing around with settings and seeing what I can get from it and also try and get hold of a precision to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks
 
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