Bass Drum Microphones

[kestell]

hey. i've talked to a few people about this question, and none of them have really known an answer, so i was wondering if someone here could help me out. my band is currently producing our first album in my home studio, in the basement. acoustically, it's pretty nice - acoustic tile on the cieling, carpet, sectioned off recording area, etc. everything is sounding pretty nice, and we're satisfied with everything excecpt the sound of our bass drum. we're currently using an AKG D112, and it's a 200 dollar mic, so you'd think it would be really nice, but we just aren't getting a good sound out of it. it sounds really muddy, even though i've played arouund with the positioning forever. the sound we're looking for is that good old "snap" sound that some bands get. infact, almost all bands i hear have perfect sounding bass drums on their albums, getting that nice snap noise. we aren't getting that sound, just sort of a deep thud. could there be a different bass drum mic that would give us that sound, and if it's user error, what could we do in the studio that would correct this problem? thanks!

 

[jrosenstein]

how does the kick sound in the room? how old is the head? have you tried tuning it differently?

 

[kestell]

my drummer just recently replaced his heads, and we're using a cutout head on the side that's being miced. i played around, and found out that we get the closest to the snap sound is when the mic is at a 45 degree angle and half inside the hole. the bass drum normally sounds pretty good, but it's not as bassey as most bass drums. sounds almost a little bit like a floor tom, but the set is really nice, so we should be able to get a good sound out of it...

 

[jmorris]

The D112 is as good as it gets for kick mic's. There are other choices that will work well but the 112 WILL do the job extremely well. EQ. is a major factor in getting the sound you want. Mic position is crucial as well as tuning of the batter head. Have you heard of a drum tunnel??? Lots of people use 2 mics on kick...be careful of phase issues. For me,I take off the res. head,tune the batter head down. Put the mic in the drum, about 6 inches from the batter head,level with the pedal but say 3 or 4 inches of center. 4k is real nice on eq.

 

[Gidge]

sm57....

 

[kestell]

wait, assume for a second that i don't read audio recording magazine guys SM57 on a kickdrum?

 

[kid klash]

Taking in for granted that the heads or new and tuned, the first thing I'd look at is your preamp.

What kind is it? Kick drum and most other percussion instruments require a clean and/or "phatt"-sounding mic preamp with a ton of headroom. Look at the new Joe Meek VC3Q pre with EQ and compression for around $300 as an example :

http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Data/Joemeek/VC3Q_Mic_Preamp_Compressor_EQ-01.html

Cables are important here too... cheapos need not apply.

Have a friend move the mic around while you monitor the results.

I bet that if your preamp is the week link in your system and you decide to upgrade, you'll never regret it when you hear how much better the tracks sound.

Best of luck,
Kid

 

[kestell]

i just posted a question about my preamp on another board. we're using an 8 channel behringer eurorack 2004A right now. how does that compare to other boards? would upgrading to a mixer with better preamps give us a better sound out of our kick drum?

 

[Kryogh]

What drumkit are we talking about? Maple? Birch? Basswood?
the kick is a standard 22"x16"? 22"x18"? 20x16?
witch drumheads?

generally speaking, I get a punchy, snappy kick sound using a Remo Powerstroke3 batter drumhead, keeping it loose, anything inside the kick. a 6" hole in the res. the mic (D112 or e602 or...) about 2 in. inside.

The beater is very important too. You can also try a "Danmar power disk" bass drum impact pad.

http://www.explorersdrums.com/product257.html



hope this could help

 

[kid klash]

Kestell -

I'd encourage you to upgrade your percussion preamps to get as much headroom as possible. You can use the Behringer for your other tracks. Chances are that whatever you like on your drums will sound good as a bass DI too.

- Kid

 

[kestell]

well, considering i'm not the drummer, i guess i don't know too much about the actual bass drum itself. i just took a look at the heads, and i'm not sure what kind of head is on the front kick side, but he's useing a double aquarian kick pad. the head on the side with the hole in it, the side that gets miced, is an evian eq3 resinant. thinking right now, his bass drum really does sound a little bit like it's turning out in the recording, more of a thud, not a snap, if that makes any sense. it seems pretty tight, so maybe getting a different head and loosening it up would do the trick.

like i already said, i'm not a drummer, so someone humor me and tell me, do different heads really make that much of a difference when it comes to the sound you get out of your bass drum? because that snap sound might just be waiting in a different head and different tightness.

also, could you clarify which side that reno powerstroke 3 batter drumhead is on? i know most drums have heads on either side. i'm guessing youo mean the side with the kickpad on it that you actually hit, but i could be mistaken...

 

[jmorris]

IMHO, a pre-amp is not the problem. A good sound has to be established first. A good preamp will enhance the already "good" sound. Kind of like the saying relating to computers.....put "shit in and shit comes out". Get the mic placement issue resolved first as well as tuning, then turn to eq. A little compression will not hurt but dont go crazy. Yes a sm 57 is at times used for kick but only as a second mic alond side a D112, 421, EVRE20 ETC. Me ,i've never like 'em on kick.

 

[Prizmaxic]

try pointing the mic at the beater side around where the beater hits the head. It will give you more click sound.

 

[kestell]

really? micing the beater side? lemme try that quick...

i still think that it might be the head / tuning of the head...

i should go talk to somebody who knows a lot about drum heads and explain to him the sound we're going for.

 

[kestell]

micing the beater side really didn't do much, i'm still getting the same basic sound.

 

[detuned6]

The o'll "snap sound"

Are you hinting towards a "click" kinda sound? Well since your drummer changed the skin, are you totally happy with the sound of the kick in the room, you could use a differant beater mallet on the kick drum(hard plastic, or wood) or you could try using a patch on the skin(aquirian vinal material or danmar plastic or metal)
The pre's on the behringer board....are well... pretty bashittic(ahh i created a new word, kinda basic and shitty all in one) I know because i have this same board, try using another channel(for a company thats ISO2000 they sure have way to many Quality Control issue's with all their mixers) not all pre's on a behringer are created equal(lol) I would make that your next upgrade for the studio-new pre's. The next step up would be one of those art pre's if your on a (behringer type of budget) But i would stay away from those cheaper tube pre's. I would reconmend a Aphex 107, its 2 ch, phantom power,20db pad,w/ a polarity switch. I was so pleased with how clean it sounded (compared to the behringer mixer pre's) i got another. You can get these on ebay for around $150. Or you could try a shure beta52, these tend to be "brighter" than a d112.

 

[kestell]

okay, thanks for your help guys

 

[kid klash]

Kestell -

If your kick sound is just lacking on the snap department, ducttape a big flat washer to the center of the batter head, toght where the batter hits the head... a harder felt/plastic combination batter will help too.

- Kid

 

[Kryogh]

yup, thats it

the Powerstroke 3 go to the beater side (the one witch is hit)

and, for "neo-metal" sound, you should try to keep the beater head very loose

 

[SteveMcB]

Washer may damage the head if your drummer plays hard - try taping your credit card where the beater hits. THis also keeps your gear acquisitions in check!!!

Then try mixing in a bit of an sm57 on the beater side.

Then try boosting a bit of eq around 6KHz - worked for me

Steve