Basic Analogue Recording Setup Help!

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Heimcomputer

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I'm just trying to understand the basics. I have a two channel reel to reel recorder and I'm planning on getting a 4 track reel to reel and a mixing board.
So is this how it will work (or am I completly off)?
I plug my instrument into the input on the mixer and my reel to reel into the output on the mixer. So the sound runs from my instrument, through the mixer, and out the output and records onto track 1 on the 4-track reel to reel. Then I do this with the other 3 channels. Basically, is this how it works or am I completly wrong?
But then how do i get those recordings back into the mixer and onto my two channel recorder (my master recorder)? Do I then unplug whatever my instruments were going into the mixer and plug in the 4-track into the input and the 2-track into the output and just play the tape through?
Also I'm playing the instrument that I'm recording (and its just me--no one else to help) so when I want to fool with the tracks that I've recorded on the mixing board do I just rewind the reel to reel to the begining and play it through and while it plays I can fix things with the mixing board?

I'm very confused about this....its actually very hard to get information about something this basic. Most websites skip the basic stuff (and I'm only 16 so I didn't grow up with this stuff)! I'm buying books so I can understand more, but they will take a while to ship and its really bothering me that I can't understand this!!
It would be really great if someone could just clear this up for me!
 
In general you're on the right track.

Ha, pun!

Here it all depends on exactly what mixer you choose, because all mixers were not created equally. However, take for granted you get a legitimate "recording" mixer, as opposed to a PA or live sound, or a super-basic cheapie mixer.

A recording mixer will have enough input/output connectors to simultaneously connect your 4-track recorder, your 2-track "master" recorder, and your instruments. The best most optimized recording mixers, such as Tascam or Fostex, will enable you to route your signals properly to and from these devices with the flip of a switch, and no repatching necessary. Any lesser mixer might involve a lot of patching, but I think if the mixer is properly chosen it wraps up all these issues very nicely. A proper recording mixer will also have a dedicated "Monitor" section (tape monitor) which is required for overdubbing, and is a feature not found on live sound mixers, cheapies or PA mixers. Once you get the right gear hooked up, there's a small learning curve and you're off and running.

An alternate to get your feet wet in analog might be to find a 4-track cassette Portastudio. The concepts of recording can be applied to bigger systems later and tape won't cost an arm and a leg. Likewise, there is a Portastudio format reel recorder known as the Tascam 388, which would also worth be looking at. On a Portastudio most of the routing functions are done inside the unit with a combination of buttons or switches. The 388 is an integrated 8-track reel/mixer system and is a middle ground between cassette Portastudios and reel/mixers systems.

I'll be honest here and say I usually prefer Tascam gear over Fostex and many others. The analog field is fairly limited on the small end, and opens up considerably when you go up the food chain to 2" pro format recorders. Your wallet will open up too when you go upscale like that. On another post we can talk about specific models and model #'s... but why not start by telling us what your 2-track "master" recorder is, and why you're looking at analog as opposed to digital? And why a 4-track reel? What are you really after? Sonics? Simplicity? Retro Lofi? Just curious.

Thanks.

:spank::eek:;)
 
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I'll also mention...

it spans the range when you talk about "4-track" reel recorders, so shop very carefully.

There is 4-track/2-channel, which is just a stereo recorder.

There is 4-track/4-channel, which in some rare cases might be a "Quad" deck, but more commonly would be a "multitracking/studio" recorder.

If you're entirely new and green at this, I'll just offer this up to help clarify the issue so you can get the right gear the first time out.

:spank::eek:;)
 
Hi thanks so much. That really cleared things up for me. I've been looking at getting a new mixer possibly the Mackie 802-VLZ3 or Mackie 1202-VLZ3. Would these work well? Could you suggest a mixer for me to get?
I really like that you can see everything with analog recording. Digital is just looking at a screen. With analog recording there is more freedom to experiment. I really like the music of Brian Eno, Robert Fripp, David Bowie, Kraftwerk, etc... Its more expensive and a bit harder to set up but I think its worth it. Its so much more interesting to set up a tape loop to get a delay like Robert Fripp did then just to push a button on a computer. With the analog you can actually see the delay happening and control it by moving the reel to reels farther apart!
 
Here you go...

Back in the early days of home recording, when the TEAC/TASCAM 4-track decks were all the rage...TASCAM put out a book called "The Multitrack Primer" (I actually have a copy of it...or had a copy...somewhere???).
It's perfect for someone just starting out with a basic 4-track/2-track setup.

Here's one on eBay....$10


THE MULTITRACK PRIMER Dick Rosmini 1982 TASCAM TEAC How to build a sound studio on eBay!


There are plenty of other books you can get, but they made this real basic and easy to follow for the first timers.
 
I told you so haha
These guys are the biz.
Enjoy the ride
 
I use two mixers, one as a front-end for the instruments (that feeds into the multitrack recorder), and one to mix the multitrack down to stereo. I've not yet come across a recording mixer (with the monitoring section) that I could actually afford.

When I started out in 2003, I used a Behringer MX802 as the mixing desk, a cheap Phonic mixer as the instrument mixing stage and a TASCAM TSR-8 as the multitrack.

This was a pain because the Behringer only had 6 channel strips, but I got by. The last two were stereo, so I had 1-4 as tracks 1-4, 5 as channels 5/6 (a stereo pair) and the last one for track 7. I used track 8 of the multitrack for timecode so I didn't want to hear it anyway.

This is something to watch out for when picking a mixer, by the way - the cheap ones in particular often say "12 channels!" but only provide 8 strips, with 4 mono and 4 stereo ones or something crappy like that.

The original setup was here, if you're curious: http://dougtheeagle.com/lab/lab2004.jpg

The current incarnation of my studio is somewhat more involved, since I'm using the TSR-8 and an MSR-24 together in a rather unorthodox manner, but essentially it's the same basic principle.
 
I'd not recommend those mixers, directly.

I've not seen the spec, but just by the model name I'd say they would not have the features you need for 4-tracking. (4-buss outputs, tape inputs, tape monitor). They may have AUX sections which may suffice in place of a Tape Monitor, but it might be a little cumbersome to repatch when you want to change functions. An 802 and 1202 are 2-buss/stereo and don't fully support the 4-track's individual inputs, which would be 4. A Mackie closer to what you need might be a 1604, tho I've not memorized all the features, might suffice. I'd be looking at whether an AUX feed could be used to monitor tape, into a monitor section that's separate from the basic 2-buss output. Tape monitor is crucial, but there are other solutions, such as a separate line mixer for phones (Tascam M-1B). That may be a little advanced. As stated above, using a 2 mixer solution. ;)

I'd look at Tascam M30, M308, M312, or Fostex 450, & 812. All are 4-buss mixers & would be the minimum I'd recommend for 4-track & 8-track production. There are other boards, but I'm most familiar with these.
 
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Thanks for sharing jp.
Is that a little preamp next to the speaker on the top shelf please?
If so what is it. It sure looks cool.
 
kip4 said:
Thanks for sharing jp.
Is that a little preamp next to the speaker on the top shelf please?
If so what is it. It sure looks cool.
Click to expand...

It's a TL Audio FAT-1 stereo compressor. They seem to be about £150-160 on ebay, which is about what I paid second hand in 2003 or 2004, actually. They were about £300 when new.

EDIT: There was also a FAT-2, which was a combined preamp and compressor, but mono. The FAT-1 used one half of the ECC83 for each channel, the FAT-2 used one for the compressor and one for the preamp, AFAIK. The valve is run at 110v, which is a little low but still within the manufacturer's specifications. Most other valve compressors at that price range would drive the thing in starved-plate mode.

EDIT EDIT:
Didn't say what I actually used the compressor for! It acted both as a bus compressor for mixdown, and I'd also use it in tracking to compress the vocals.
 
Way cool.
I've seen some of the tl audio gear on the tube and it has a nice retro sound to it.
thats a decent price too fro a secondhand comp.
Stay away from ebay guys i'm gonna try and watch some sleepers SShhhh
 
Ebay can be risky, but about 90% of my studio was obtained that way...
 
eBay and Craigs list for me!

my 2 cents. Get an "inline mixer" Lots out there. Mackies are a good choice. Depending on the model make sure yo select one with a meter bridge,(a VU meter for every input channel). Instruments into a channel each on the mixwr. each chaneel out to the 4 track tape machine from the mixers direct out. 4 channel tapr plays back int the tape returns for each channel, again on the mixer. Stereo out from the mixer to your two track recorder. Two track tape machine output back into the mixer on (2 chan input). Add monitor speakers to the mixer control room out (out board amplifiers if the speakers are not powered) And you are ready to start playing.
 
Ok this has been super helpful! Thanks! I have a much clearer understanding now! So this is my idea for a setup:
Mixer: Mackie 1642 VLZ3
8 Track Reel to Reel: either Tascam 38-8*or Teac 80-8
2 channel reel to reel (master track): panasonic Rs 790s
I went to the music store and the guy there recommended the mackie cos it has an output for each input so ill use 8 inputs for my instruments and the corrosponding outputs for each track on the 8 track then Plug the 8 track back into the mixer through the other 8 inputs then out into the two track. Does this sound ok? Which is the better 8 track for me to get (the teac is a bit cheaper but i dont mind spending more if the tascam is better)?
 
Either the Tascam or the Teak, same company, Tascams generally being the upscale versions. Its the Panasonic. Im not familiar with that model. Again, only an opinion, but try for a pro-sumer class mastering machine at least.
 
a quick peek suggests the panasonic is a stereo four track playing program material 2 tracks at a time in each direction. that is not a mastering machine. what is your intended use of the tapes coming off of the two track recorder?
 
Heimcomputer said:
Ok this has been super helpful! Thanks! I have a much clearer understanding now! So this is my idea for a setup:
Mixer: Mackie 1642 VLZ3
8 Track Reel to Reel: either Tascam 38-8*or Teac 80-8
2 channel reel to reel (master track): panasonic Rs 790s
I went to the music store and the guy there recommended the mackie cos it has an output for each input so ill use 8 inputs for my instruments and the corrosponding outputs for each track on the 8 track then Plug the 8 track back into the mixer through the other 8 inputs then out into the two track. Does this sound ok? Which is the better 8 track for me to get (the teac is a bit cheaper but i dont mind spending more if the tascam is better)?
Click to expand...

Teac/Tascam are the same company (I htink Tascam is an acronym of Teac and America....)

The 38 is an 80s unit, the 80-8, 70s, so on the one hand depending on the "vibe" you're seeking, you might get more "vibe" with the 80-8, but you're also getting an older deck. The Mackie board has all the necessary specs, but +1 to Dave's recommendations for vintage Teac/Tascam boards. Do review some of those publications. I would consider the Mackiea 12x4 board (with four of those stereo) which is fine and the busses are stereo busses. I've never been able to get my head around a stereo input or output, but that's just me. it also has direct out, but hyou need to familiarize yourself w/ ht ebusses vs. the direct outs. I tend to use the buss outs primarily, others use the direct outs quite extensively. You'll need the direct outs if you want to record more than 4 tracks at a time on the 8 track. You don't have to. In fact the early fostex 8 tracks only had four inputs, and the model 80 has input 1-4 normalized to inputs 5-8, for use with a four buss board.

ditto on the panasonic, it is a "1/4 track" deck that is record two tracks, flip tape over, record two more. It isn't a mixdown deck in that sense, you'd be looking for a "1/2 track" or "2-track" somehting like a Teac A-3300SX-2T. The latter is going to have twice the track width and higher speed.
 
Oh i get it. Ok thanks. So I can't use the panasonic as my master recorder? Thats dissapointing. I got it for almost nothing so it would have been nice to save a bit of money. is it an ok 4-track? I guess I can use it for tape loops and stuff. Any suggestions on a good master recorder?
 
Yeah, the Panasonic is a consumer deck from 1968. It's a reversible 2-track machine which is low speed, so it fails in pretty much every area you'd want for a master recorder.
Apparently it's 4-head... depending on how it's arranged it might be possible to use it for a tape delay. If it's erase, record and one playback head for each direction it should work. But if it's two sets of erase and record/play, it won't.

For a budget mastering deck, a high-speed Revox B77 or PR99 would work, though beware that especially in the UK, there are playback-only PR99s out there. For language classes, IIRC.
Consider also the TASCAM 32, or its higher-end brethren the BR-20.

For an 8-track machine, the Fostex R8 is supposed to be quite nice. It has the advantage of running on 1/4" tape which is cheaper. There are a few known issues with them, though - the capstan pulley can come loose and may need to be glued on.

The TASCAM TSR-8 is my personal favourite, it was one of the last 8-track machines in production, replacing the 38. Only 2 heads, but the tape handling is very nice and it has some great features for automatic punch-in. For example, you can tell it where to start and stop recording, and then run into the other room to re-record a botched verse or whatever while the machine automatically punches in, punches out and rewinds back to the start of the verse. Otherwise you either have to have someone operating the deck, or use a remote control.

The TSR-8 can also be slaved to a computer or another deck if you can get a compatible synchronizer.
 
Another option for your master machine is the ever present Otari MX5050 line. If you look a bit these can usually be found for very reasonable prices. I bought one earlier this year for 50 bucks. A lot of people use these with good results. The only potential pitfall with these is that the input connectors need their wiring modified (swapping two wires on each connector) so they talk to your mixer correctly. Its no big deal but can drive a new person nuts wondering why the damn thing doesnt work, LOL
 
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