Basement vs. outside space?

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aurorakooba

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I have the option of working with a basement or sheetrocking and insulating an outside space. I'm looking for what people would choose to do?

A. Basement.
PRO
-Heating and AC wont be a problem
-concrete walls
-electricity
-large space
CON
-inside noise
-must deal with furnace and everything else down there...washer. too much rain=possible moisture


B. Outside space 8x12
PRO
-stand alone
-man cave-ish
-concrete floor
-wired for electricity
CON
-no heat/ac
-needs insulation/rock wool/quiet rock or some sort of sheet rock
-windows
-doors are barn style
-smaller space

What do people think? Comments. YOU CAN SEE PHOTOS HERE.
https://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v461/aurorakooba/STUDIO or basement/
 
Basement. It's larger and it'll take a lot less work to make usable.

Frank
 
I like the little outside place. Get some sort of ventilation system and a space heater and I think it would be pretty B.A.
 
I think you should be taking care of the dampness in your basement before you even think about hobbies.
 
jim, the dampness is just like (i assume) every basement. it isnt like the basement is wet or anything. but if a hurricane came through VA, shit would get wet. it isnt like there is h20 now or signs of it.
 
At first I was thinking that the basement would be the best idea, but after checking out the pix I would fix up the shed thing and rock that out. everyone needs a sweet man cave!
 
So not a damp basement then. Cool.
I'm up on a mountain, by the way so what we call "The Basement" (it's a ground floor really) is in no danger of getting wet unless the floor drains get plugged.
That water tank is probably your biggest worry.
Shutting your furnace off for a few hours is not too much of an inconvenience and a huge money saver but if you're anything like me, a few hours can turn into several, quite easily.
I love your shed.
First thing I'd do is sit in there and have a listen.
Does it expand/contract a lot.
There's a dandy little oil heater that's been on the market for 30 years.
It's quiet, passive and very effective.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...2BDigital%2BOil-filled%2BHeater.jsp?locale=en
I'd insulate and Gyproc the shed. Pay attention to the building codes re vapour barriers. Framing in the double door would be a snap.
Nice!
Have fun with it.
 
what do people recommend for a "ventilation system?"
everyone's comments are very helpful. thanks.
 
I don't trust Photobucket so I didn't look at the pictures. But to me, it would depend on a few things.

1. Height in the basement. For both recording and mixing. Very low ceilings in typical basements usually require extensive absorption which usually translates into lining the floor above joist cavitys with absorption, which also means, to increase the transmission loss performance of the membrane, also must be lined with a couple layers of drywall. Also, basements are natorious for moisture problems, AND are the defacto place for HVAC units and ducts, which must be delt with for TL as well. Depending on your isolation needs, these can be a real pain in the but to properly address.

vs a blank canvass in a seperate building.

2. If this outbuilding is a typical shed type, depending on the roof construction and your TL requirements, I would use the space at the apex of the roof for a massive superchunk of 3lb density rigid fiberglass or mineral wool
for a bass trap as well as all 4 wall to ceiling/roof corners too. However, this all has to do with your isolation needs vs the environmental noise floor and distance to adjacent neighbors, AND the roof construction(rafter/ties or trusses). There are many ways to increase the transmission loss potential of a blank outbuilding. Unfortunately, the one factor that most older small outbuildings share is a wood framed floor instead of a slab. This one factor alone could make the difference as a wood framed floor is a membrane, which will transmit LF/impact sounds(drums) like...well, a drum head.:D And increasing the mass may or may not be possible depending on ...1. The depth of space between the ground and the bottom edge of the joists and 2. the load capacity of the framing itself. However, if the floor is a slab...thats a PLUS.

3. Size. What are your needs? What are the sizes of the 2 options.

4. HVAC. Regardless if there is an existing HVAC in the basement, and depending on your budget/isolation requirements, tieing into existing ductwork creates a flanking path for sound to the upper floor, unless correct plenum/baffles are installed..which may or may not be possible. Not only that, but STRUCTURAL transmission paths must be addressed as well...again..depending on your isolation needs and budget. Bottom line is this. Anytime you contain sound within an envelope, you now have to absorb it...especially low frequencys. AND, you either need lots of mass or a decoupling strategy to keep LF from transmitting throughout the house.

vs...IF, the distance to your neighbors is far enough and the environmental noise is low enough vs the SPL created within the studio, the outbuilding may not require extensive mass for isolation..which translates into LF sound transmitting to the outside world..which also translates into less cost and less LF treatment within. In other words, what sound escapes does not have to be absorbed. Another plus.

On the minus side, the outbuilding may require an external HVAC and ventilation paths. If you insulate this building correctly, heat buildup will occur rapidly. People and equipment generate heat. Not only that, but even musicians like to breath.:D
In order to make a space relatively SOUNDPROOF, you also must make it AIRPROOF, which creates a conundrum. After spending mucho time and money to build an isolated building envelope, now you must penetrate this envelope for ventilation, not to mention HVAC...not an easy task to keep the iso shell TL performance target, and satisfy breathing/comfort levels at the same time.

Anyway, thought I would share some of my decision making thoughts with you. In the end, only you know all the potentials of your project. Like budget, skills, existing conditions etc etc. Personally, I'd sit down and make a list of each and every element of your project, and juxtaposition them on each option, and then compare all the possible ramifications of each and their solutions. Then you have a comprehensive decision hiarchy to work with.

fitZ:)
 
fitZ,
thanks for taking the time to give me so much advice. the outbuilding photos on photobucket give a pretty good idea of the outside and the innards. it does have a concrete floor, yet it is close to neighbors. the more i think and list pros and cons, i love the idea of having the outside space for vocals and direct instruments, and perhaps, do drums in the basement. i mostly want to just get up in running. ive heard so much about LF and the benefits of rockwool. what do most people do for HVAC on the cheap? i have two AC units that came out of a yacht. they are the type that have a tube in the back that goes out of a window or a circular space. they arent very quiet, but with my budget, i cant afford the mitsubishi quiet machine that my buddies just put in their studio. what should i do with the concrete floor? throw rugs down and be done, or should i build it up with wood? thanks again. oh, and windows, someone mentioned making sheetrock pieces with handles attached that i would out on top of the windows when i needed to.
 
No prob. Thats what we're here for.:)

the outbuilding photos on photobucket give a pretty good idea of the outside and the innards.
Well, I still don't trust it. The last time I clicked on a link to photobucket...WHAM!! I got an INSTANT virus, completely had to re format my harddrive and the whole bit.:mad::rolleyes:

I can't afford to take a chance anymore. Even though I have backups..its the time/frustration involved.

it does have a concrete floor
:cool: Like I said, thats a definite plus.

i mostly want to just get up in running.
So does everyone else.:p Problem is though, if you just rush it, and don't plan things out, you run the risk of completely negating all your work and money. "Soundproofing"
is extrodinarily UN-intuitive. Your best bet is research. There is so much info out there and here on TL construction, there is no reason for anyone to fail, except by assuming things. Unfortunately, TL construction is DETAIL oriented. That means every step has to be done correctly. One little hindsight or misunderstanding principles, can totally waste your time and money. So my best advice is RESEARCH and PLAN.:)

what do most people do for HVAC on the cheap?
Ductless Min-split Heatpumps.
http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/space_heating_cooling/index.cfm/mytopic=12630:cool:

i have two AC units that came out of a yacht.
Remember, this is an element that requires compliance with BUILDING CODES. Plus, the voltage requirement may be an issue and or not work in a residential setting..at least as far as the building inspection department is concerned. AND your home insurance policy. Both of those are extremely important issues of which if you ignor could result in possible penalties/fines/loss of insurance and or required demolition etc.

what should i do with the concrete floor?
Seal it. Paint it, or use throwrugs. Personally, I'd put down furring strips with insulation between and put a wood floor in. But that all depends on your budget/skills. Also has to do with another aspect.....Decoupling..hence:

someone mentioned making sheetrock pieces with handles attached that i would out on top of the windows when i needed to.
Yes, those will work. Just remember to detail them so the perimeter gap is sealed when installed. There are many ways to do this, but the point is to make a TWO LEAF assembly with the same TL or better as the wall. Do a search on these. One other thing. I don't know what the exterior of the building is sheithed with(typically Plywood or OSB), but you can beef up the exterior leaf by installing one or two layers of drywall against the BACK side of the sheithing, in the stud cavity. Just be sure to caulk every joint. This still leaves room for insulation(batt type). Then install 2 more layers on the inside, or better yet, for a better TL, use Resiliant Channel on the studs'ceiling joists. This is a whole nuther animal as far as detailing and skill level though. Lots to consider, especially for the load of the ceiling on the roof framing assembly. Might wanna check this and tell us what it is first. RC is cheap. Works really good but depends on ultra precision when installing, and fastening the drywall, and the detailing around door jambs. This method is an especially good alternative for improving the TL as it is a poor mans "room within a room" decoupling scheme. However, to make it even better. the floor must be addressed as well. More on that if you are interested. Lots to learn here..
I would suggest ordering this book too. It was written by our formost expert member, Rod Gervais. He is a structural engineer and designer of some of the best studios around...including some of the BIGGEST PRO STUDIOS! He tells it like it is.


http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-Studio-Build-Like/dp/1598630342



fitZ:)
 
my choice would be the basement. depending on how damp your basement is, run a dehumidifier when you're not tracking and install drycore floor tiles down. they are sort of a free floating floor with an air gap that allows water to travel under the tiles if anything were to happen.

my vocal booth ended up flooding due to a crack in the foundation. after repairing the issue, i used the drycore tiles and now anything that may attempt to come into the basement just trickles under the floor.

also a plus side is the drycore tiles allow for more temperature control eliminating the coldness of a concrete floor.

DryCore link
 
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