Basement College Recording Studio...

Ignatius-

Ignatius-

New member
Hey guys,
First time posting in the Studio Building and Construction forum... I am a music director at a College radio station and I have some questions about the recording studio space we have here. I attached a floor-plan of the room - it's a pretty janky space. I have some concerns about the current setup. It was set-up like this when I started working here, and I have been extremely displeased with the way that it sounds. I did some reading on the generals of an ideal studio setup, and this does not seem to be the most ideal. For one thing, there are crazy bass frequency drop outs - because of the extreme corners (I am guessing...?), which make it almost unusable as a listening space (it also has panelled celings which, obviously, creates buzzing, etc.).

I have tried moving the speakers to find a more symmetrical set-up, but the room doesn't really allow for that... and I don't really have the time to move all of the furniture for a test. I was just wondering what your guys' thoughts on this might be. Is there a way that I could arrange this space to have a decent sound? Honestly, we don't get that much funding as it is, and I don't think the administration would give us that much (if any) money to completely overhaul the room. So, this would all have to be, like, no budget. I honestly don't know what would have to be done to correct the space. Any help would really be appreciated.

Here is the layout:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63617003@N08/5784796759/in/photostream
 
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What are the floor and ceiling made out of? How high are the ceilings? Besides the desk, what other furniture do you have in the room? How many people are generally in the space working?

Sounds like you could use some room treatment. Sometimes even a moderate amount of room treatment can make a huge difference. You might need a few traps. I say "might" because you never know for sure until you run some tests. I installed 4 bass traps, two mid range traps, and 3 aurelex 2 x 4 panels in a room of almost the exact same size and it made a huge difference. All together it was about $630. Your parallel walls might be a bigger culprit than your odd corners.

As for the things that are rattling, you need to get in there and make them stop rattling any way you can. I had a ceiling vent that rattled and I wedged some tape between it and the drywall and that solved my problem.
 
Sorry... I probably should have included that. The ceilings are 8' tall and the walls and the floor are covered with very tough carpet. I think the walls are made out of cinder blocks (it is the basement of an old building), and the floor... well, I think it could just be concrete. The ceiling is made out of the typical "classroom" ceiling panels (the, like, 2'x4' standard rectangular ones).
 
Get the carpet off the walls and paint the cinderblock if you like. That should help any boxy muffled sound. The problem is you'll probably have tons of standing waves, and flutter echo. You know that weird ringing you hear when you clap your hands in the middle of a big empty room? Ya, gotta get rid of that without totally killing the room.

Build some 2x4 broadband absorbers. Look here: John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum • View topic - The 25 minute, $25 acoustic panel (or $42.00 bass trap) thats the basic idea. If you can't get the OC703 material they use in this one, substitute Roxul safe n sound or the densest rockwool insultation material you can find at your local home depot or lowes. NOT the fluffy pink stuff, you want rigid dense material.

I would roughly estimate 4 for each of the short walls and maybe 6 or 7 for the long walls. The ceiling tiles you have arent the worst thing in the world, so don't mess with those until youre ready to spend some serious cash.

For the floor, you may want to remove it in the area where you would set up drums or other acoustic instruments. Sometimes a hard floor adds a more lifelike airiness to the recorded sound. For now, its probably helping with flutter echo so build the panels for the walls first and go from there.

Hope that helps,

Adam
 
oh, and ideally you want your speakers shooting down the length of the room. make sure you put panels on the walls beside you at the first reflection points where the sound will hit the wall and come back at your ears.
 
Sorry for the delay...
Thanks so much! Once I get some funding I will definitely try and make these work - no money right now. Those panels look awesome. I am not sure if I can rip the carpet off the walls just yet, but I will look into it. Does it really affect the sound that much? I guess I never knew that. I probably won't be able to make these changes for a couple of months (once school resumes), but I will let you guys know. Thanks again.
 
dont rip the carpet off the walls until you are ready to hang the panels. when you completely expose the hard walls, it will be very ringy and echoey. but with the carpet on, youre absorbing all of the high end frequencies but none of the low end. after you rip it off and hang the panels (which are designed to absorb a broad range of frequencies), the room should be a little more even. there will be less ring and echo, but you will still have a little bit of high end left in the room from the hard wall space in between the panels. remember, there is such thing as TOO MUCH absorption, so dont just go covering the entire room in something like carpet or foam like some guys do...

good luck, remember to let us know how it goes!

Adam
 
Marshall409 is right. If you do not measure your room's acoustics you will not know what exactly what you are trying to solve. Your ears have been a good guide noticing the bass drop outs. Perceived wisdom says that as you treat a room for bass problems you go a long way towards treating the other frequencies. $60 will get you a measurement mic.

The carpet on the wall and the floor will be doing nothing for lower frequencies. It will be absorbing some of the higher frequencies and so will have improved the sound of conversation in the room but it will be contributing to the boomy, boxy sound. Corners are treated first because that is where bass tends to build up.

Marshall409's advice and link are pointing you in the right direction regarding treating the room for the whole audio spectrum, which is what you will be wanting for a recording and listening space. How much absorption depends on how lively you want the room to sound for recording and how much absorption is required to treat what your readings tell you.

From your sketch it would be better if you can relocate your desk and monitors, ideally so that you are facing one of the ends (shorter walls) of the room and teh monitors are shooting down the length of the room.

One last thing. Because of the way sound waves bounce around a room there will places where sound will be boosted or canceled at some frequencies. Finding the sweet spots, places where these problems are avoided, takes a bit of experimentation (and measureing). Basically, avoid sitting in the corner or the very centre of the room.

As you say, with zero budget now you have time to learn and plan ahead for when you get funding.
 
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with the carpet on, youre absorbing all of the high end frequencies but none of the low end.
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Ah Ha! That would explain a little. I moved the desk so it is facing one of the short walls and it seems to have made a big difference already (the listening area is supposed to be 38% of the length of the room - which is, like, 8 1/2' back. Right?). It also frees up a great deal of space...

with zero budget now you have time to learn and plan ahead for when you get funding.
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I really want to do all of this right now, but I just don't have the money. Do you guys think I am going to need around 20 panels for the whole room? ...that might be more money than I can get. Could I do it with less panels? And if so, which would be the most important parts of the room to treat? I mean, I have a lot of time to figure this out (probably a couple of months, unfortunately). Thanks again, and I will definitely keep you guys updated on my progress - even if it is in a couple of months.
 
Ignatius- said:
the listening area is supposed to be 38% of the length of the room ... Right?
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38% is meant to be the best starting place. You will want to move a bit ans listen to how the sound changes. What you are after is findoing the sweet spot where you do not have a build up of bass (that's in the corners) or a convergence of room modes (that's dead centre in the room) or any other place where sound waves are bouncing and either cancelling each other or booming (that could be anywhere).

Ignatius- said:
Do you guys think I am going to need around 20 panels for the whole room? Could I do it with less panels? And if so, which would be the most important parts of the room to treat?
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I can't find the height of your room. If standard absorption panels are 4'x2', let's assume your room is 8' tall. 4 corners requires 8 panels. 23'x1 and 15'x2, 76' is the total length of the wall to ceiling corners. Minus 12' to allow for the corber traps, leaves 64' which is 16 4'x2' traps. First reflection points may require a trap on each side wall and two front and back plus 2 on the ceiling. That's 32 in total, before you have measured the room to see what specifically needs to be done. To answeryour question, with such a large room 20 will prpbably nit be enough but it is reasonable to assume that 20 will be better than none, as would 16 or 12, so do what you can now and add to it as and when you are able.

The important parts would be the 4 corners and the first reflection points. based on an 8' high room that may be 16 traps.

These are just generalisations as we don't yet know what the room analysis has thrown up.

Ignatius- said:
I have a lot of time to figure this out ...
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As for figuring it out, there is an excellent, if rather full, index of quality reading over at gearslutz.
 
is this guy ^^^^^ trying to say to cover every part of the walls with traps?
forgive me if im wrong, its been a long day.
 
Forgiven, shirtedman, that is not what I am suggesting. Corners. Corners between walls and ceiling. Corners between walls and walls.
 
Thanks! I will be coming back to this information in the future when I have some money... thanks again - I really appreciate it.
 
So, I went and asked for money for renovating the studio space in our radio station... it's a no go. They've been pretty tight on money, I guess, and spending $700-800 on renovating the studio wasn't in the budget. I will definitely pass along all of this info to whoever takes over... hoping they will try and pick up the project. Thanks again for all the info.
 
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