Band Walks Into Your Studio...But doesnt know the tempo of the song....

  • Thread starter Thread starter TheTruth_Mikeyd
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aaronmcoleman said:
I don't think I've ever recorded anyone who does know the tempo.
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How can one not know the tempo to your own songs ? :confused:

miroslav said:
Was there a drummer with this band...?
If he didn't know......... :D
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If one doesn't know the tempo to one's own songs, then how in the world have you played the songs up until now ? :cursing:

TheTruth_Mikeyd said:
Its the fact that they change tempo in the songs 4 times without knowing.
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Well, that in itself need not be a problem. Lots of songs have tempo changes.

ido1957 said:
Any band that does not use a click won't know the tempo.
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Click or no click, how can a band that plays a song not know the tempo ? :facepalm:

suprstar said:
I'd hit the record button and say 'ok start playing'. If they dont know their own song's tempos, do they even know what a click track is??
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But how can they not know the tempo ? They've played the damn song ! :eek:

I'm weak !
 
Anyhow, I usually have the drummer play 3-4 bars and analyse that then round up to the nearest number (as it usually tends to be something like 123.842 etc...).

If it's an obvious tempo change, rinse and repeat then draw in the change...

Takes literally 30 seconds and is incredibly more accurate than tap tempo (uh... since you are using the drummer to dictate the tempo and not your finger).
 
Grim, I think the issue is that nobody knows the BPM of the song. Everyone knows how to play the song at (more-or-less) the right tempo, but nobody can put a number to it.

Sometimes it's just not a high priority to know all the minutiae of a song's arrangement. I've got one song that I've been playing live for two years. It's got a couple measures of 5/4, but I didn't even notice until I tried to record it!
 
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VomitHatSteve said:
Grim, I think the issue is that nobody knows the BPM of the song. Everyone knows how to play the song at (more-or-less) the right tempo, but nobody can put a number to it.

Sometimes it's just not a high priority to know all the minutiae of a song's arrangement. I've got one song that I've been playing live for two years. It's got a couple measures of 5/4, but I didn't even notice until I tried to record it!
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Exactly. I was skimming through this thread and the post I was just about to respond to was Grim's.

Yes, I'm sure most people know what speed to play their song at, but they might not know the actual numbers. In fact, of all the thousands of cover tunes I've played, I couldn't tell you the BPM to one of them. The only reason I know the BPM of my own songs is because it's a necessity when laying down a click track. If I ever started playing my songs with a live band, I wouldn't expect anyone in the band to know the BPM as long as it's played at the right speed.
 
When you've figured out the BPM, it might be more sensible to round the number down, rather than up. I use a click and diligently got all my bands to rehearse and do demos with one, but more often than not, when listening back months later, the songs ended up being just that little bit too fast.
 
Beat Poet said:
When you've figured out the BPM, it might be more sensible to round the number down, rather than up. I use a click and diligently got all my bands to rehearse and do demos with one, but more often than not, when listening back months later, the songs ended up being just that little bit too fast.
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Personally, I usually prefer my songs too fast over too slow. Factor in the loss of "energy" from the live show to the studio, and bumping the tempo up might offset that.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Grim, I think the issue is that nobody knows the BPM of the song. Everyone knows how to play the song at (more-or-less) the right tempo, but nobody can put a number to it.

Sometimes it's just not a high priority to know all the minutiae of a song's arrangement.
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RAMI said:
Exactly. I was skimming through this thread and the post I was just about to respond to was Grim's.

Yes, I'm sure most people know what speed to play their song at, but they might not know the actual numbers. In fact, of all the thousands of cover tunes I've played, I couldn't tell you the BPM to one of them. The only reason I know the BPM of my own songs is because it's a necessity when laying down a click track. If I ever started playing my songs with a live band, I wouldn't expect anyone in the band to know the BPM as long as it's played at the right speed.
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Point taken. I stand corrected because I don't know the BPM of any song I've ever written or recorded or played though I know the tempo of all of them. I know a number of disco songs back in the 70s were 120 BPM. It was the absence of the phrase "BPM" that threw me.
Or at least, that's what I'll be telling the police. :D
 
If the band don't know their own tempo, they must be pretty ignorance... but well... there's some people are a "perfect pitch" which didn't know any music terminology.

IMO, as music producers I think we who the one have that knowledge should not look down or make fun these kind of musicians, bands or anyone.

To solve that problem is rather simple, just let them play and analyze the drum pattern.

I also as a musician did not comfortable to play to a clicks.
So what I do is to make a basic drum 4/4 drum pattern for that tempo with the hit-hat, snare and kicks only.
It seems that not only me, but other musician also comfortable with this.

So, after having analyze the band tempo, try make them play to this basic drum tempo and see if they happy with the speed (tempo of course).
 
witzendoz said:
If they don't play to a click track at home when they practice ??? Forget it in the studio, you will waste the whole day trying to get them to play in time with it. You will also get comments like "the click track keeps slowing down and speeding up". :confused:

Alan.
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^^^^^this^^^^ anyone that hasn't learned to play to a click aren't gonna get trained to do it in the studio in just a few minutes or even hours.
 
I always suspected it was the click track speeding up and slowing down...
 
If the band isn't used to playing with and recording to a click, there are really only a couple of reasons (that I can think of why) you'd even suggest they start doing so "now" (as in, while they're sitting in your studio waiting to record):

1 - They're expecting you to edit the drums. If a band is expecting you to edit their drums (or if you're expecting you'll have to edit them in order to end up with anything resembling a listenable recording), you're likely going to have a pretty awful time trying to do so without a click/grid. Editing guitars/keys/vocals should really be done to the drums either way, regardless of what the click's telling you.

2 - They have large sections where the drums drop out. Unless they're freeform in nature, you'll want to at least be able to turn on the click for these sections, so the other instrumentalists will have something to play to, especially if there will be more than one track/performance during the drop out (eg: two acoustic guitars and vocals, or something of that nature).

Either way, to click or not to click is definitely something you should work out with the band beforehand, so that they're prepared. If they're expecting to record to a click, you need to get tempo maps from them (how many measures of how many bpm). 99% of the time, these will be at least a little off, but it will create/build awareness within the band of the tempo changes, and will at least get you in the ballpark once they come in. Plus, it teaches them an incredibly useful skill that any future engineer (possibly yourself) will certainly appreciate.

As a reasonably competent non-drummer musician, I can't really fathom not being able to record to a click, but there is definitely an art to it as a drummer. Even competent drummers with good internal rhythm can have trouble getting the right feel with a click without some experience under their belt.
 
Band rushing or slowing or whatever depending on how excited they gets? only way I've ever been able to deal with it is to blast a metronome in their headphones. Tell them if they don't like it, then they need to play that song over and over until they don't need it. Keep the business by being honest. Whenever they hear it back if you just let them fluctuale all over the place without it being deliberate, they will notice more and more the more times they listen to it or play it for their friends. If I sucked in a studio recording session, I would want someone to tell me, and tell me why.
 
Captain Ego said:
Band rushing or slowing or whatever depending on how excited they gets? only way I've ever been able to deal with it is to blast a metronome in their headphones. Tell them if they don't like it, then they need to play that song over and over until they don't need it. Keep the business by being honest. Whenever they hear it back if you just let them fluctuale all over the place without it being deliberate, they will notice more and more the more times they listen to it or play it for their friends. If I sucked in a studio recording session, I would want someone to tell me, and tell me why.
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It's like a doctor telling a patient they're fat.
A lot of 'em won't appreciate it .......... some will ..... others get indignate.
In terms of making money with your studio it's like any other business. You have to gauge the customer and decide the way to handle it.
If they're open then sure ...... but past a certain point you're just as much at risk of losing business if they say you're pushy as if the product isn't as good as you would wish.

Further ...... if I heard a recording of a band and their tempos were all over the place, it would never even occur to me to think about the studio at ALL! They have nothing to do with a bands' preparedness.
And I think most people would react that way.
A studio is responsible for getting good recordings and doing a good mix.
But a studio has nothing to do with how well rehearsed a band is.
Yeah, a producer does but a studio that's been hired for studio and engineering time is not a producer.
 
We dont need no stinkin tempo !!!! Just record it, slightly polish it, and be done.
 
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