BAD recordings with SM57 and EMU 0202

[BeëlzeM]

Hello,

I recently purchased an SM57 and an EMU 0202 USB interface. It came along with Sonar LE which I use. The EMU worked just fine with vocals and also the Hi-Z line in got me some pretty clean guitar signals to work with.

Only when micing my guitar cab it gets messed up. It sounds just plain bad, and before I bought I just listened to some clips recorded with an EMU 0202 and they all sounded MUCH better.

Here is a clip:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=912773&songID=7415799

Only lo-fi version works.

The EMU doesn't say it clips and according the Sonar it doesn't. Any help?
Mic position is right in front of the cone.

 

[tojo]

1. The hi-fi version did work
2. don't put it smack in front of the cone
3. move to the left of right edge of the speak and point it towards the middle
4. try using 2 mics, its worked for me (i heard good thigns from a 57 and 58

 

[Farview]

I really don't hear anything wrong with what you got. I would point the mic where the dust cover meets the cone. The closer to the center you put the mic, the brighter it gets. The more you move it toward the edge, the darker it gets.

If you don't like that sound, change the settings on the amp. Think about it, every time you play a club, the audiense is listening to your guitar sound through a 57.

I'll say it again, there is nothing wrong with the tone you are getting, it's just not what you thought it would be.

A 57 and a 58 are the same thing, the 58 just has the ball on it.

 

[BeëlzeM]

That thing is recorded with the same equipment.

Much better quality to me. Much smoother and clearer and actually represents how the amp sounds in person. My recording doesn't even get close.

Would that be mic placement maybe?

 

[axeman_ukl]

try experiment with mic placement more to the side of the cone try removing alittle of the lower frequencys or the bass settings on the amp if it starts to get more hissy use a gate plugin to remove some of the floor noise even try putting another mic around the back of the amp and blending the two.

unfortunatly you almost never get the sound you are after first try its....try....try ...and try again alter this alter that but thats why we love recording

 

[JCM900]

That thing is recorded with the same equipment.

Much better quality to me. Much smoother and clearer and actually represents how the amp sounds in person. My recording doesn't even get close.

Would that be mic placement maybe?

Well, first of all, theres no way your amp sounds like this, it is multi-tracked.
Your amp sounds like a small solid state amp. What size speakers do you have?
They have much more gain on their amp also.
Theres nothing wrong with your recording equipment or mics, its the amp and performance and number of tracks.

 

[BeëlzeM]

It's a completely modded JCM 800 2205 with 4 gainstages, so it has enough gain.

I'm using a 1960A cab with G12T-75's.

My recording sounds pretty sterile and digital and pretty fake while the other recording sounds like the amp actually does in person.

My triplets or fast strumming in that recording sounds like shit basically.

I know multi tracking improves quality and makes it sound bigger, but does the audio quality improve? Cause I really think the audio quality of my recording sucks.

 

[joeym]

Your problem could be too much gain. Turn it down to about 2/3rds or 1/2 of what you normally use. Raise the amp cab from the floor. Place the mic about 1" from the grill in the centre and angle it it about 20-30° to where the dust cap meets the cone. Boost the mids on your amp and not too much treble or bass. Check your tracking level and don't override. Double the guitars and pan them 2 left and 2 right.

Hope this helps.

 

[Farview]

It sounds like the same setup to me, but you need to double track it and use some EQ.

With a transparent sounding EQ and a bunch of high shelf at about 8k and suck out some 800hz (play around with this, I'm just guessing. It will be somewhere between 300hz and 1k) with a medium Q.

You can't expect a single raw guitar track to sound like a finished mix. You can't get to the end without going through the middle.

 

[BeëlzeM]

So, I've been messing around with it.

Here's a quick tonetest done in Sonar 6 LE with EZDrummer DFH:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=912773

Tracked twice, then doubled to four tracks. Panned them both to 75% and 25% either sides.

Playing sucks though and some stuff is out of sync but it's just a test.

Any general and basic tips on this? I still need a good EQ VST.

 

[Farview]

Copying tracks is a waste of time. If you want 4 tracks, you need to perform it 4 times.

The sound is a good metal sound. It sounds a lot like Slayer's 'South of Heaven' tone.

I know that this mix was just thrown together, but if you are hearing the kick prominently in the mix, there is something wrong with your monitors. The drums (except the toms) were way in the background. The hi hat was really loud, so was the ride.

If that mix sounded balanced to you, your monitoring system probably has the bass cranked up and the mids sucked out. That's not helpful.

 

[RAMI]

then doubled to four tracks.

This accomplishes absolutely nothing.

 

[CMunch]

Sounds like you need to adjust amp settings to get what you want,sounds like you an the 57 hearing it different cos of the room you are using and mic placement.

When I record from my Marshall have to turn gain down a bit,sometimes roll back highs and boost mids a wee bit to get the recorded sound I want,amp itself doesnt sound all that great to me with these settings but records ok.

Your not down on all fours with your ear right against cab!

 

[BeëlzeM]

This accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Hehe alright. I thought having the original at 75% left and the clone of the first track 25% right, and then the other tracks 25% left and the 75% right would work. But apparently not then, thanks for pointing out.

 

[Farview]

Hehe alright. I thought having the original at 75% left and the clone of the first track 25% right, and then the other tracks 25% left and the 75% right would work.

All you accomplished was panning each guitar 50%. You just did it the long way.

 

[Sonixx]

I wondered about your comment on HCAF to visually point the the mic at the dust cover/cone.

I would expect a mic pointed at the dust cover/cone to have much more presence than what you're getting. IMO your tone is bottom heavy and with no clarity.

Are you dialing after mic placement. If not you should.

Have you watched the Colin Davis Video about Heavy Metal Guitar Tone

 

[BeëlzeM]

I wondered about your comment on HCAF to visually point the the mic at the dust cover/cone.

I would expect a mic pointed at the dust cover/cone to have much more presence than what you're getting. IMO your tone is bottom heavy and with no clarity.

Are you dialing after mic placement. If not you should.

Have you watched the Colin Davis Video about Heavy Metal Guitar Tone

Thanks for the video, seems like very good info!
I just dialed in my amp the way it sounds good and miced it up. I definately have to improve my mic placement, as I don't really know what works and what not but I will be trying out stuff. I really need more presence and I need to roll back my bass on my amp?

Does it sound like it's too close to the cone? I have it right up against the cab. I need to have it further away?

Also, how big of an issue is room size? I haven't recorded before in a small room like this, as this is my first home recording. I know it matters but is it critical?

 

[NinthHour]

if i may, what you have there doesn't sound like your too far off, do you have 2 57's handy? if you do, go up against the grillcloth at about and inch from the outside of a speaker (make sure to listen to each speaker in your amp see which is best there is a difference) then take another 57 and bring it in at a 45 degree angle with respect to the first mike like this
/ \
---------
l \
sorry not very good at those little drawings but you get the picture the closer to the edge, the more bite you get and the closer to the center of the cone the more warm fuzzy you get so by going off axis with a second mic you will in turn offset the harsh bite of the first (with some carful mixing) and make the area around your amp as dry as possible. this technique has got me some good results in a small room situation before so give it a shot!