Backing up your PC - who doesn't do them, who really does, and how do you do it?

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DaveO

DaveO

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For a long time I was like most people, I did some occassional backups of my PCs for a while, then they became less regular, and finally they all but stopped. Lately I've gotten much better at doing backups on a regular basis (about monthly), but since I'm doing it on CD-Rs figuring out what pieces fit together well enough to reduce the number of CDs I burn takes a fair amount of time.

I'm now thinking about adding second disks to two PCs so I can store vide oprojects as well and I'll probably end up with 80 GB drives, possibly 120 GB. But when I think about numbers like that I get concerned about backing up that amount of data. So to those who have such large drives and actually backup your data, how are you doing it? I know there is high density tape like DLT and AIT, but those are pretty expensive for home use.

And regardless of the media I choose, I'm still thinking I need some kind of software to manage the backups so I can do some incremental ones between the fulls. No sense backing up the same data over and over and over again if it's not changing. Except for audio and video projects, I'd say most of the files are stagnant. I created and used them and now they're just their for historical purposes.

So, who's doing what? I'm also curious to see what percentage of people fall into the "I know I should be doing them but I'm really pretty bad about it" category - and admit it publicly!
 
Its too much work backing up on cdr. I'm having the same issue as you right now. I currently run a 30gig internal 7200 ide drive. last week I went and got an external 7200 120gig external ide drive. i plan on backing up my 30 gig drive on the 120. Eventually I will get another 120 gig drive and keep 2 back up storage drives. 1 attatched to my comp to store files and another I'll keep at my house and bring to the studio once a week and back up my storage drive.

I think the bigger problem really is gonna be file managment. I want to learn more about different ways to host your database for efficient managment.
 
When I was working on a lesser machine, it was a nightmare. I wasn't going to install and remove a physical hard drive every time I wanted to do a backup, and leaving it installed defeats (somewhat) the purpose of backing it up in the first place.

Nowadays, I make sure I keep each project and all corresponding source files in it's own folder, zip when I need to, and burn CDR's. CDR's are cheap, and with a 40X burner, it's fast enough to be practical.

I had considered getting a removeable hard drive kit, but I like keeping archives of "steps" along the way. I sleep better :)
 
i'm not a model to follow for anything but here's what i do.

i have two computers networked (on different levels of my house, on different breakers). i replicate all data folders from each to the other...often. hard drives are fairly inexpensive and nothing beats the speed and ease of copying stuff over a 100 mbps lan connection (cept maybe a 1000 mbps lan connection).

if my house burns down, i'm screwed. but then again, i'll probably not be real worried about my audio projects at that point.
 
I installed everything, and go Norton Ghost to image my HD. Back up in CD. For working files, I do back up every time I finished project... about once in the week, or at least once in the month...

James
 
erichenryus,

I remember a while hearing about software that you could use to do something very similar to what you're doing. The idea is that you could create backup partitions and set things up so that changes to files in your working partitions get automatically backed up to the backup partition(s).

You might be able to set things up on your PCs such that they backup over your home LAN to each other automatically. If I think of that package or at least where I saw it I'll post that for you.


Dave O.
 
DaveO said:
erichenryus,

I remember a while hearing about software that you could use to do something very similar to what you're doing. The idea is that you could create backup partitions and set things up so that changes to files in your working partitions get automatically backed up to the backup partition(s).

You might be able to set things up on your PCs such that they backup over your home LAN to each other automatically. If I think of that package or at least where I saw it I'll post that for you.


Dave O.
Click to expand...

oh, that would be very cool!
 
now now dave-0 remember how sweetnubs said to keep your cd-r and hard drive on different cables? here's another instance where your brand new hard drive is slowed down to the speed hard drives had 6 years ago. to each their own. you should constantly back up your data. just think about everything you have on your computer dissappearing forever. kinda sucks, eh? here's what sweetnubs does: now dave-0 remember when I mentioned RAID? good. sweetnubs has a striped (RAID 0) and mirrored (RAID 1) array running simultaneously. (called RAID 0+1) a mirrored set-up in the simplest form consists of two hard drives. the same make and model makes the most efficient set-up. both drives run simultaneously with the secondary drive constantly backing up your primary drive in real-time. it is a constant second by second back up in real time. this is a mirrored array. if the main drive fails the mirrored drive immediately takes over with no down time whatsoever. pretty hella wicked sweet eh? now a striped array in its simplest form consists of two drives with all data being split simultaneously between both drives. think of it likes this: you are writing a sentence. now if you write each letter with one hand (one drive) it takes a certain period of time. now imagine if you could write two letters at the same time which would be accomplished by using each hand simultaneously, that would be equivalent to both hard drives running simultaneously in striped mode. the data is split, and through the RAID controller both drives are seen as 1 drive so in essence you get a 100% performance increase and in certain situations you actually come quite near to this ideal. now what nubby has is a striped/mirroring set-up. (RAID 0+1) this entails four hard drives. two that are striped then two more backing up the striped drives in realtime. so i get the performance increase, with realtime back-up and without nearly any performance hit. super hella wicked sweeeeet! if either primary drive fails one of the mirrored drives automatically kicks in with no down time. now nubaphonic has taken this even a step further. i also have a standby drive. so if a primary drive goes out, the mirrored drive kicks in, then the reserve drive kicks in and mirrors the drive that stepped in to replace the primary drive. fuckin' a that makes me tingle. now the nubmonster even takes this further. i have one more drive that i use for incremental back ups during the session when i have time i save to this drive. you know, the ol' cntrl+s (windows) At the end of the session nubs makes two DAT back ups. (not audio but data) he leaves one at the studio and takes one home. now i know you are thinking to yourself that nubs is insane, which is most likely true, but why does nattynubs do this? if you've ever lost data due to a hard drive crash and had to go out and tell your client "sorry we have to retrack this and that" you'd understand. if given a "verbal reaming" was love, nubs has been in true love twice. of course the other option is to take your hard drive to a data recovery place. if they can even retreive the data, it will cost you a penny plus a few. as i recall it was 120,000 pennies. ($1200) you had to ask. i must say i've had more hard drives fail then i can count on both hands. i've got a closet with probably over 200 hard drives, so the failure rate should not be ignored. especially now. i remember when hard drives had 5 year warranties, then they dropped to three. now they are moving to one. god bless america, capatalism, disposable merchandise and trying how to figure out a digital storage medium that will be usable 5 minutes in the future.
 
jeez, i re-read my post and it reads like i've got 200 failed drives. sorry dudes, dudettes, and hermaphrodude/ettes. i have about 200 functioning drives in my closet with probably about a dozen failed drives. so that's about a 6% failure rate.
 
Raid is definitely the way to go if you can afford it. $1200 is incredibly cheap for what I've seen though. The one I'm sitting next to here at work was just under 10 grand (just under a terrabyte though, and it's got so many fans that it sounds like an airport). The redundency of an array is a luxury that most of us humble homerec'ers can't afford (certainly not me with my home studio).
 
I agree nubs. I manage about 10 TB of space across multiple Unix servers at work and understand RAID levels. However, my PC experience is limited to what I do at home and there a huge difference in my budget for my home network and my budget at work. :D

Like Sean and I both said above, this is Homerecording.com. I'd love to be able to set up multiple storage arrays filled with fibre channel disks and connected to multiple fibre channel switches to muliple servers on multiple networks at home, but it just isn't happening. :(
 
I have OCD I think...
Quad boot RAID 0-1 and a forth disk called back up with 2 partitions that I save stuff in ... a double double back up.
Always putting stuff on CD they are cheap and it makes me feel safe.

I have lost some things that I can't replace either because I can
't find them again or don't remember what they were. Some people don't have that problem so I guess backing up is no big deal for them but I live by it.

Ps. I just read Nubbies post again...Man that kills.
I just want to point out Nubs setup rocks but for all you saying thats a lot of expensive drives, you only need three to achieve the speed and security of 0-1.
A good 7200rpm drive with a high buffer like 8mb even 2mb on the maxtors up to 60 gb with u ata133 is wicked fast with the help of multi boot setups and partitions made for specific tasks RAID0 is not always a great or even noticable improvement so don't stress the wallet if you dont have too.
 
After a lot of trial and error, this is the system I have come up with that works for me - on each of my 5 PCs, one of which is pretty much exclusively audio.

1) Each PC has two hard drives - a smaller system drive which holds the OS and and programs (except games), and a larger data drive (for two of my PCs "data" means installed games, for the audio PC it means audio files)

2) I use Norton Ghost to make periodic backups of the system drive, writing the image to the data drive. When I do this I boot from a DOS (Win 98 actualy) boot floppy and run Ghost. I write the backup in 690 meg chunks, so they will fit on a CDR.

3) Depending on the importance of the system, I either leave the backup image sitting on the second drive, or copy it to a central file server (computer #5), or write it to CDR. I always do the later when I first set up a new computer, so I have a good backup I can return to if all else fails.

4) So far as data goes, on my audio system I run Cakewalk 9, and I save to a .BUN file (big compressed file containing everything). I then back these up individually to CDR. On my other "leisure" systems I don't bother to back up the second drive at all.

Writing a Ghost from one drive to another is a very, very easy and painless way to make a backup. And if a system drive dies you just boot from a floppy and either start feeding it CDRs, or suck the image straight from the data drive.
 
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I've thought about Ghost for taking care of my O/S once my current SystemWorks subscriptions expire. If I upgrade to SystemWorks Pro I'll get Ghost bundled with it.

From what I read about it (still not too much) it seems like I could also use it to back up audio projects onto a few CDs. However, video projects are another story. A single two hour Hi-8 tape would be about 24 GB, so I'd still have the problem of backing them up and the kinds of solutions I'm familiar with at work just don't translate to my home configuration.
 
I back all my working files up to a second (and occasionally 3rd via network) drive. All archived files (i.e. finished sessions) are burned to CD - i buy LOTS of CD-R for about $.30 each. Takes a while, but I like having CD backups. I've already have one 80gig data drive corrupted and it cost me a pretty penny to get my archives back.

I don't bother backing up my system, but I have all my installation disks, driver updates, and reg codes backed up on multiple CD's and well labeled. When the system drive goes down, i chalk it up to house cleaning and reinstall from scratch. Not as efficient as backup and restore, but it only takes me an afternoon to reinstall from scratch and the computer generally runs better than it did before.

Its a little cumbersome using CD's as the main backup and storage device, but it keeps my data drives free for projects and mixs- and I like not having to worry about drive failure. i have a 3rd drive for storage, but I don't like depending on it for the long term. I just keep stuff on it for quick access and the CD's stay in their cases so they don't get scratched or out of order. The most difficult part is staying on top of it and buring the backups as you go. I spent a whole day (on and off) burning my old 4-track transfers to CD a while back- something like 12 CD's!

Take care,
Chris
 
I also have a ghost copy of my system drive. It's fast and easy to do, and it's as good as a fresh install. I tried "Go Back", but I didn't like it. It continuously updates its backup, causing near constant hard drive activity - no good. I usually backup my projects once they are completed with direct cd. Again, it's fast and easy. If it weren't, it wouldn't get done. Then I can clean out and defrag my audio drive. No worries.


Twist
 
twist is a smart boy. I highly suggest everyone who doesn't have a "clean" image to make one. it's kind of a pain in the ass but will save you trouble in the end. Reformat the drive, do a fresh OS install. install all your drivers, then the apps you are going to use. Now make a image and back it up somewhere's, cd's, dvd-r, DAT, etc. Now if you ever thrash your system you have a perfectly clean install of your os, drivers and apps. it will save you a lot of trouble and time in the end. This is also an instance where it is helpful to have a Drive for os and apps only and a second drive for data. you could also partition your data drive and have the image stored on that partition. I put the entire Os on it's own partition. luckily since i've been using XP i have not ever crashed or had to reinstall, reformat, etc. been 9 months now. wish i could say that for my mac. You can do RAID at home for pretty cheap. You can get a lower ender controller for under $100. Quite a few controllers are now built into motherboards. now you just need two hard drives for a simple RAID set-up. this is ide raid which isn't quite as nice as SCSI but it works very well. think of it this way: you can outperform a single 15,000 rpm SCSI drives with two ata133 72000 drives striped in RAID 0 for much less than the SCSI drive and SCSI controller would cost. although the fast seek times of the SCSI drive is not matched by IDE RAID.
 
Have any of you guys thouhgt of a DVD burner as backup device? For about $300 you can get a cheap DVD burner and 100 4.7GB disks off Ebay that should last for some time
 
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