Avoiding slapback in reverb

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leavings

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Is there one or a combination of parameters on a reverb unit that controls the amount of slapback you get? I'm trying to get rid of it in an acoustic guitar track I recorded, and I can't ascertain if it's something in my reverb settings or a problem with the way I recorded it.

I recorded in stereo with 2 condensers pointed at approximately the 12th fret. Right now the reverb settings are mix = 30%, pre-delay = 30 ms, decay = 560 ms, and I have a Low Pass cut around 6000 Hz. I'm using the Anwida DX reverb light plugin in CPA9.

Any ideas?
 
leavings said:
pre-delay = 30 ms
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This is where you should be focusing your attention. Although 30 ms shouldn't be giving you any slapback -- odd. Just try messing with the predelay until it sounds right.
 
You really should be timing your pre-delay and decay/release settings to the tempo of your song anyways........
 
30-50 msec could bepercieved as a slapback but that's neither here nor there. The predelay is just that, a delay before the reverb starts reverbing
 
Track Rat said:
The predelay is just that, a delay before the reverb starts reverbing
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Exactly - you can liken it to the distance away the first boundary (wall?) is from the sound source.... ie - no reverb occurs until AFTER sound wave bounces off the first nearest boundary.
 
I disagree to some extent with that.

If you have discrete echos, then the popular trend does seem to want to have the echos in tempo with the song's bpm. However, that is generally not considered a reverb effect.

predelay in reverb settings are generally not heard as a delay, but more so serve to adjust the apparent size of the room...longer delay=larger room. You will not hear 10ms delays and percieve them to be two "attacks".

I think I "might" see your reasoning, as having the predelays (even though not heard as a delay) being matched and NOT having the reverb tails spill over into the next "attack". However, that is way too strict a guidline to use for reverb settings in my opinion.

AND...all this is pretty much novice level knowledge...so I am pretty sure you know this, but just worded your response a little poorly.

How the ^*&% are you going to get it to sound like a train station?:D
 
Pull a trian through it I suppose.
 
Who are you disagreeing with Mixmkr?

I said predelay controls the variable of when the reverb hits the first nearby boundary - whether its a wall or whatever. That is the distance from the source to the wall -- ie size of room.

Nothing to disagree with me on that point.....

I also said it is common to time predelay's to the tempo of the song -- you ay disagree with it, but it's a common practice to blend the reverb in more naturally to the timing of the song......

YMMV.......
 
mixmkr said:

I think I "might" see your reasoning, as having the predelays (even though not heard as a delay) being matched and NOT having the reverb tails spill over into the next "attack". However, that is way too strict a guidline to use for reverb settings in my opinion.
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Bruce...
You are correct in predelay in helping to define a room size. We all know that...nothing really new there. It appears we just worded it differently and I just tried to make the point a bit more lucid.(not sure if trackrat knows it...he is old and grey!!)

However, making the pre-delay some fraction of the songs' bpm, is not necessarily a common practice. That's the part that I was disagreeing on. I guess for some engineers it is, but I haven't found that to really be true.... as I don't think it nec. blends it in more naturally. Authentic reverb parameters are never as predictable in real life situations, and hence make todays digital counterparts sound artificial, except in the best units available.
In my uses with real chambers and plates, this was also the case, when digital delays came in vogue to add predelay to the send. (instead of a tape machine). No math was being done to figure the predelay as compared to the song tempo. The effect was to "create" a different room size (which I am agreeing everyone seems to know). I think the "room size" effect created be using the predelay adjustment is MUCH more dominant a reason rather than trying to get the verb to blend more naturally. I think reverb duration and/or decay does much more to blend in "naturally"...instead of the predelay adjustment. I use the word naturally as a replacement for "cleaner" or "better sounding" in this case..... purely subjective, of course. But..I'm NOT comparing parameters here now either. Just that I don't agree that the predelay being in relation to a songs tempo means anything. To those that can hear 10ms time differences, then I suppose it does. Maybe subconciously it does for some too. I don't know. I only have my set of ears to go by.

But..the decay...that is something different(as we all know)... potentially clouding up the attack of the next "note"

btw(on another subject)...I also find discrete echos on delays MUCH more creative when they just don't repeat in 1/4 ..1/8th note fashion. That's so typical nowadays, it almost borderlines on the Cher effect! Something just a little "off" seems to create much more interest...at least to my ears.


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PS...don't get me going on reverbs..! As I've said...I'd wash my clothes in it if I could!!
 
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As I mentioned - YMMV with respect to setting up effect parameters... I don't agree with you, I've found that effects are less muddy when timed appropriately with the song. Good thing is that we don't have to agree on this at all -- we all have our ways of doing things!


mixmkr said:
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PS...don't get me going on reverbs..! As I've said...I'd wash my clothes in it if I could!!
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Yes... I know this for a FACT!!!! ;)

:D
 
:)

yeah...I suppose if everyone agreed on everything, all the music would sound like Brittany Spears:eek:
 
one last thing... I guess I shy away from the bpm thing, is because in much of my music, I go for a rubato feel, VS a pop song feel in which there is a strict tempo. Granted, most of the stuff I've posted on the internet for listening is more "pop" oriented, but the ambient style music I like to do, generally has no rigid tempo. TO ME...that kind of music just "eats up" reverb!!

You DON'T want to hear my banjo playing yet!! but it IS getting better.. solid stream of 1/64th notes!!;) I'm striving for that "pellet gun off a church bell" effect!!...or course, automatic disbursement fashion!
 
Yup, I agree with the Bear, I always set up reverbs to the songs tempo.
 
I do it on the square root of the tempo devided by (what else) pie.:D
 
mixmkr said:
Authentic reverb parameters are never as predictable in real life situations
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That's a good point you bring up. Perfectly timed pre-delay may sound really good, but also might not be quite as natural. Maybe just a bit too perfect or precise to sound like it could have been done organically? I can buy that.
 
chessrock said:
I can buy that.
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good...I'll even pay shipping... I take Paypal.. cost=$500

I can send you some train station samples!


vox...I didn't know your stuff sounds like Brittany!!:D
 
Um...
so I do what?

You guys can hear the slapback I'm talking about in the mp3 file I posted a while ago. It's at: http://www.poemadept.com/help.htm

Song is called "This Hotel Room." I actually had been trying to time it to the song, but I think I did it incorrectly. LEt me know if you have any ideas.

Peter
 
dial your predelay down to zero.

I think the "labeling" on your software might be suspect, as much as I would be supprised that it is off. It almost sounds like the predelay is in the neighborhood of 75ms or so.. but tough to tell.
 
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