Audio Myth Buster Thread

raven46

raven46

New member
I just found out that tubes do not add warmth to your sound. In all my years both playing music and doing HR I had never heard this before and I feel like I have just saved myself a nice little bundle of cash as I was saving for some tube comps and a mic. Just coz they had tubes thinking they would add some of that warm mojo. Not ture!! BUSTED.

I'm thinking what other myths are out their, so please if you know any audio myth post them here.

Ta
 
Hi, if this is true it wouldn't surprise me, because far too much bullshit and snake oil is attached to the subject of vacuum tubes. However, I'm very interested as to what brought you to this conclusion, where you are drawing your evidence from, data etc. :)
 
I actually think that saying tubes DO NOT add warmth, is just adding to the myth pile...because it's such a broad, generic statement.

As noted in the other thread...it depends on the complete circuit, and some tube gear does add what is usually referred to as "warmth" (which is kind of a silly term to begin with)...and that is about saturation, distortion, etc.

As also noted in the other thread, all tube gear does NOT "only/always add harmonic brightness"...as the YT guy was saying...which is also yet another myth HE is spreading.

True...*tubes* alone in an otherwise neutral circuit may not add shit....but in most tube circuits there is more to it than just that, and YT videos where some guy posts his personal opinion as global fact and science...only spreads a different kind of myth.

That guy wasn't even looking for warmth...he was looking for punch...and his video is circular and doesn't prove or disprove anything, IMHO. So because he misunderstood what gear to use for what he wanted...he turns it into some "myth busting" thing...when it's more about his own misconceptions being realized.

(PS...get the VLAs..you will like them).

At some point...people need to stop reading and watching YT, etc....and instead, they should just start experiencing and finding out what works for them, and what preferences they have for audio...instead of buying into what someone else prefers. This shit is all so subjective, that you really need to experience and form your own opinions....and then go with that. :)
 
Good design and implementation is what brings 'warmth' to a piece of gear. It can be tube gear or solid state. Of course it's cheaper to make good 'warm' sounding solid state gear than tube gear. Almost anything with a tube in it for less than $800/channel is just a marketing ploy.
 
Farview said:
Here is a video the busts the myth about digital audio being 'stair stepped'. This should really be a sticky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM
Click to expand...

He kinda played on the more simplistic misconceptions that digital audio makes the final analog sound have stair-steps...which is NOT true....but the underlying reality is that what he gets at the analog output is just a *reconstruction* of the original analog signal, and he says that, though he chooses not to dwell on it.
 
miroslav said:
He kinda played on the more simplistic misconceptions that digital audio makes the final analog sound have stair-steps...which is NOT true....but the underlying reality is that what he gets at the analog output is just a *reconstruction* of the original analog signal, and he says that, though he chooses not to dwell on it.
Click to expand...
Well, that's because it goes without saying. If an analog signal is converted to digital, when you convert it back, it has to be a reconstruction. I'm not sure I get your point.
 
There's that whole myth about "impedance matching" that confuses people all the time. The truth is that in all cases this side of the power amplifer>speaker connection, we always want to mis-match impedance from a low source to high(er) load, and the greater the mismatch the better. Well, that assumes that we actually want to pass as much signal as possible across as big a frequency range as possible. If you want everything you can get, you want at least 10:1 ratio of In-Z to Out-Z. You can plug a microphone into a line input. You can plug a line output into a guitar amp, pedal or "instrument" input. There may be level issues, or other problems with the connection, but it will never be the impedance that causes it.
 
Farview said:
Well, that's because it goes without saying. If an analog signal is converted to digital, when you convert it back, it has to be a reconstruction. I'm not sure I get your point.
Click to expand...

4:15 - 4:35

He basically shows that it IS stair-stepped while in the digital domain...and then it has to be reconstructed and converted to a non-stair-stepped signal in the analog domain.

So his whole argument is that when converted back to analog, it's not stair-stepped...which I guess some people use to think it was for some reason...yet he's basically trying to imply that it's the same analog wave that went in...which is BS...it's not, it's a reconstructed/fabricated wave from the digital depiction of what the audio was and what it should be when it's analog again.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking to argue some analog VS digital point and/or which sounds better...just saying that he's presentation somewhat glosses over certain points so that he can show the output in analog is not stair-stepped and the same analog wave that went in. It's like he's saying nothing happens to the original analog wave...which is not an accurate explanation.

Oh...and you made me go back and watch it again so I could find the point on the timeline. I find the guy generally annoying to listen to and to watch...which has nothing to do with the actual audio stuff. :D
 
raven46 said:
I just found out that tubes do not add warmth to your sound. In all my years both playing music and doing HR I had never heard this before and I feel like I have just saved myself a nice little bundle of cash as I was saving for some tube comps and a mic. Just coz they had tubes thinking they would add some of that warm mojo. Not ture!! BUSTED.

I'm thinking what other myths are out their, so please if you know any audio myth post them here.

Ta
Click to expand...

Yeah, John @ Massive has been saying that for years. Tubes are not the source of 'warmth', it's the transformers. I don't know myself, but I'll take his word for it.
 
gecko zzed said:
I'm declaring 'warmth' to be a myth unless someone is able to define it.
Click to expand...

In audio...I always took it to me the fattening/thickening of the sound, via saturation/harmonic distortion...which tubes can provide. Of course, as said earlier...talking about JUST THE TUBE, and not the whole circuit...
...is like talking in a vacuum...tube. :p

Of course, someone else my define it differently....Snuggies not included. :)
 
miroslav said:
4:15 - 4:35

He basically shows that it IS stair-stepped while in the digital domain...and then it has to be reconstructed and converted to a non-stair-stepped signal in the analog domain.

So his whole argument is that when converted back to analog, it's not stair-stepped...which I guess some people use to think it was for some reason...yet he's basically trying to imply that it's the same analog wave that went in...which is BS...it's not, it's a reconstructed/fabricated wave from the digital depiction of what the audio was and what it should be when it's analog again.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking to argue some analog VS digital point and/or which sounds better...just saying that he's presentation somewhat glosses over certain points so that he can show the output in analog is not stair-stepped and the same analog wave that went in. It's like he's saying nothing happens to the original analog wave...which is not an accurate explanation.

Oh...and you made me go back and watch it again so I could find the point on the timeline. I find the guy generally annoying to listen to and to watch...which has nothing to do with the actual audio stuff. :D
Click to expand...
Start watching again at about 6 minutes, where he explains that there are no stair steps. The graphical interface on the digital o-scope misrepresent what is actually there.
 
He's just using lollipops instead of steps. :D

Even he says that they are individual points...so word play...it's slices/samples/points/steps or lollipops...and not a continuous wave, and the output on the analog side is a reconstructed fabrication of the original analog wave that went in.
He doesn't really want to point that out...because it leaves some questions hanging, and he then can't imply that the analog output is the same as what went in. It's not...it never was...it never will be.

Again...I'm not trying to start any discussion about which is better, analog or digital and the reconstructed analog...or if anyone can tell the difference. That's a separate discussion. I'm just saying he's on a mission, and chooses to gloss over these things in order to prove his points.

I also like how he disabled comments on his YT videos. ;)

And damn you....you made me listen to him a 3rd time. :p
 
I don't know. I think it would be obvious.
A continual analog waveform gets converted to 1s and zeros, then gets converted to analog again, No Way is what is coming out the same as what went in.
 
Yeah it does. The smoothing filters will recreate the waveform properly. If there is any difference, it is probably caused by the analog circuits of the converter, not the conversion itself.

Remember, this same technology is used everywhere, not just audio. Digital communications is all about converting digital data to an analog signal, shipping it out over the airwaves, then converting it back to digital. (Then, funnily enough, back to audio if it's your cellphone). If the technology couldn't propagate the same signal, then we wouldn't have the data infrastructure that we have. And that gets done in the gigahertz range, not the audio range.
 
I agree that the technology is quite amazing in what it can do, but still don't buy it. Just don't buy that the original signal is 100% replicated. Maybe simulated to the point where it's almost indistinguishable from the original, but not replicated.

Just my un- tech savvy opinion.
 
I hear ya. I haven't actually looked at any null test results and really don't care to do so. I am happy with how my songs come out and I enjoy listening to them, that's all that matters.
 
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