Audio Interface for a Newbie - Be gentle!

  • Thread starter Thread starter daveyboy909
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Jeff_D said:
I wouldn't bother with the field recorders (even though that H4N looks like it functions as an interface) and I definitely wouldn't bother with any of those stand alone recorders. You're going to end up editing on the computer anyway. Why create the extra steps for transferring from the stand alone to the computer?
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I agree. My suggestion was to simplify the recording (speed things up)

As far as the compatibility issue goes;

I have had the same problems with Vista.
I have an older computer with XP that I do all my music on because not all my software & hardware works with Vista.
You are right to be cautious.
 
daveyboy909 said:
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Lets see what else is out there....
Off the top of my head, MAudio has the Firewire 610 with the same imputs for like double the cost...
They also have the FastTrack Pro, but that doesnt have the third and forth analog input.
Hang on...
 
This one, Lexicon Lambda...
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Lexicon-Lambda-USB-Audio-Interface?sku=245506
I can't tell if it is 2 or 4 inputs- it has 2 line level and 2 mic, but they are both labeled 1 and 2, so I can't tell if its 2 mic AND 2 line or 2 mic OR 2 line. :confused:

Echo makes good stuff...
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.co...nnel-Firewire-Audio-Interface?sku=245641#used
Little more expensive though.

There are a bunch of USB interfaces all in the $199 range, but they only have the 2 mic ins and not the 3 and 4 on the back...

The Firebox is tough as hell to beat for features in that price range. If you have a music store nearby with a halfway liberal return policy, maybe you can buy it and they'll let you return it if it doesnt work on your system (just make sure you can get cash and not just store credit). Both Vista and the Firebox have been around for several years now. I'd have to believe they've worked out the bugs in their drivers by now. Based on what else you can get in that price range, I'd say its worth a shot. :o
 
Clark Grizwald said:
I have an older computer with XP that I do all my music on because not all my software & hardware works with Vista.
You are right to be cautious.
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I never bothered to get Vista. I have 3 machines running at home and they're all XP. We have a few machines at work with Vista and they just are more hassle.

I've been hearing REALLY good things about Windows 7 though... time will tell...

I don't know how long you've been messin with computer recording, but I vaguely recall after XP came out that everyone was bitching about drivers for XP not being available, and talking about how bad it was. Personally, I think XP has been their best OS to date... With any new OS though, it takes time to get drivers to market. Vista's lifespan was too short for people to forget that drivers weren't available when it came out. :p.
 
Head Spinning

I'm a real newbie to Mac - got myself a MacBook Pro running Snow Leopard just 2 weeks ago. Will I need one of these amazing gizmos to connect my Yamaha keyboard to my new Mac, or will my USB to USB cable work just as well as it does on my XP laptop? I want to hook up to GarageBand - eventually. :confused:
 
Maureen - If your USB cable is sending midi messages (which I assume it is), then yeah, it oughta work the same as it has before - you'll need a virtual instrument on your computer for the keyboard to control, but if it worked for you before you should be able to go through a similar setup process and not need an interface.

Daveyboy - I saw the same thing. Low latency may very well be different from zero latency. My guess is that the mixing/routing software that comes with the firebox (which would be a separate program from your DAW and would be used to control where the various inputs and outputs going to and coming from your firebox are routed) would be what you monitor from. So, instead of the signal going all the way to the DAW and being recorded and coming back out, the routing program would send a feed to the monitors at the same time as it sends it to the DAW. You'd probably end up with very low latency (something on the order of 4-8 ms) that stayed pretty consistent without having to futz with it.

That being said, if you're running Vista, be careful. Whatever you go with, make sure you find several online confirmations of it's compatibility with vista, or at least make sure you find some forum entries where people have had problems but been able to fix them somewhat easily. With Vista, you're likely gonna have some problems one way or the other, just the nature of the beast, so it's a matter of damage control.

Honestly, assuming you do go with the firebox, you could just use two mic channels on your mixer, have four mic inputs in total, and be able to record some rocking drum tracks that you could adjust in the mix if the need arose. There are lots of setups you could use, the classic being 1)mic on kick, 2) mic on snare, 3) and 4) two overheads or room mics in some stereo configuration.
 
Guys,

Thanks again for all your advice. I now have a decent idea what I am looking for and I have identified these as some of my main options:

PreSonus Firebox
Pros
  • Comes with good software that looks easy to use
  • PreSonus appears to have great technical help and users forums on their site
  • Their site has an easy to follow video demonstration of how to use the hardware and software
  • It has 4 xlr/instrument inputs which is enough for me
  • Low latency monitoring
  • Firewire so 24-bit/96k Sample rate
Cons
  • I've read a lot of stuff about the gain being very poor for mic inputs and that I would probably need an additional preamp to get decent volume without a lot of noise
  • Retails in the UK for £100GBP more than the US price
  • Loads of people report massive compatibility issues with Vista (which I am running)
  • Seems to have only two analogue inputs which I believe means if I have 4 instruments/mics then I won't be able to master each as an individial track. I could be wrong about this

Yamaha Audiogram 6
Pros
  • Seems like an easy to use interface with enough inputs for me
  • Compression on two mic channels
  • I have dealt with Yamaha technical support before and they were good
  • Well within budget
  • Has enough inputs for my needs
Cons
  • Only USB 1.1
  • Can't find many user reviews or much written about it at all
  • Doesn't have midi input which I may need later

Tapco Link Firewire
Pros
  • Haven't read about problems with compatibility with Vista
  • A lot cheaper than the Firebox
  • 24-bit/96k
  • I've read good reviews about the soind quality
Cons
  • A lot of reviews say that it is really a 2/2 interface and to get the advertised 4/6 you have to install a firmware "downgrade" which reduces other functionality - this is very strange
  • The software to make it 4/6 is apparently not officially available yet despite the unit being around for 3 years

Zoom H4n
Pros
  • Can operate as a stand alone recorder and therefore bypass driver/Vista issues
  • Has built in mics for recording e.g. accoustic guitar
  • User reviews are 95% very good
  • looks fairly easy to use
  • 24-bit/96k
Cons
  • More than I wanted to pay
  • Only 2 inputs for mics/instruments (other than the built in mics)
  • Not sure how often I would want to use the built in mics so I may be paying for a feature I don't want
  • Part of the price is also probably for the fact that it is a standalone recorder, whereas I would be happy just doing it on my laptop through an interface


I am still undecided as to what interface I should get. I am looking at a couple of other ones too including the Echo audiofire that Jeff suggested. I am waiting to find one that works with Vista without problems and that has decent preamps, enough analogue inputs, zero (or low) latency monitoring and is easy to use with fairly entry level software.

Thanks for all the help guys, I now think I have a clearer idea of what I want. Any more thoughts would be appreciated though!

Cheers

Dave
 
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The Lexicon Omega should be on your list. It's a 6x4 USB interface and I've seen it as low as $179.00 US.
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Lexicon-Omega-Desktop-Recording-Studio?sku=245505

Also if there's any way you could roll up some extra cash, I'd heartily recommend the Zoom R-16 $399 us. It's an amazing little machine. It's a 8x8 USB interface, or a 16 channel recorder that records to SD cards. It also works as a control surface for your DAW. It's got 8 combo XLR-1/4" inputs and the sound quality is quite good. It also has some usable onboard effects.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R16
 
Dave- sounds like you are wrapping your head around this stuff- thats great. A couple things though to clarify...

PreSonus Firebox
the Firebox does have 4 analog inputs- 2 are mic preamps, and the 2 on the back are line level. So, it looks like you could feasibly connect a pair of mics to the inputs 1+2 on the front and connect your digital piano (or the outputs of your mixer you already have) to inputs 3+4 on the back. That sucks about the price hike for you Brits.

Yamaha Audiogram 6
something you didnt mention as a con- this unit only operates in 16bit / 44.1km which is a lesser audio quality than the other units. If you had an old computer and didnt want to upgrade for some reason, this might be a good option, but for the $30 difference in price I'd go with something capable of 24bit/96k.

Tapco Link Firewire
I found this at zzounds.com, but it said it wasn't available anymore. Its advertised as a 4 input interface... and it looks like a fine unit... but keep in mind that the 3rd and forth inputs are SPDIF, which is a digital protocall and would require something with SPDIF outputs (hint- most budget standalone preamps and gear DON'T have SPDIF out, so these may be hard for you to utilize)


Zoom H4n
seriously, for what this thing costs, if you don't plan to do field recordings, I would just scratch this thing from this list (just my opinion)


AND, YES- Teysha has a very viable contender- The Lexicon Omega might even be your winner.



ANY of those units can be run with a whole bunch of different software. I love Reaper- I don't know if you got a chance to download that or not. I beleive the Presonus stuff all comes with Cubase, which is fine too.

something else I think you mentioned a few posts back was that you had a small format mixer sitting around? You can use the preamps in that to feed analog inputs (for instance input 3 + 4 if you got the Firebox). On the mixer you would pan one pre all the way left and pan the 2nd pre all the way right. Connect the left and right outputs of the mixer to 3 and 4 inputs on the firebox, and you'll have separate discrete audio from both of those preamps. (hopefully that made enough sense)
 
Just get the firebox it has a cool name:D

Or if you want i can sell my used Delta 66.:D
 
Guys,

Having listened to all the advice and continued my own research (lol) I kept looking for the right unit. Basically my needs were:


  • 4 analogue inputs (preferably the dual xlr/jack inputs)
  • zero latency monitoring (if i saw the words "hardware moniotring" or "direct monitoring" I assumed it had zero latency monitoring)
  • separate level meters for each inputs so I can easily see what inputs are close to peaking etc
  • either USB 2.0 or firewire

The Lexicon Omega looked a near perfect unit for me and at a good price... and then I realised that it was only USB 1.1 and I nearly tore my hair out!

But I have found this, slightly more expensive unit from Lexicon which seems to meet all of my needs fairly perfectly - http://www.lexiconpro.com/product.php?id=153#overview

I was really hoping that I could get some opinions on this. It looks like the perfect audio interface for me but the only problem is the reviews haven't been great.

I would really appreciate your thoughts on this unit.

Note about the Firebox - I have decided agains this unit as I e-mailed PreSonus saying I had heard that the preamps were weak and asking if I would need additional external preamps to get decent levels from my dynamic mic and he basically told me that I should get the FireStudio Mobile instead because it has better preamps and the Firebox is going to be discontinued. But the mobile is more than I need and more expensive than I need, and it didn't seem to have zero latency monitoring anyway.

Other units I have been looking at - I have looked at the TC Konnekt 6 which looks decent but doesn't have enough inputs for me. The Tapco Link Firewire/USB looked decent and I'd heard that the tracktion software that is bundled with it is good and easy to use, but again not enough inputs and no zero latency monitoring mentioned. I also had a look at some Roland Edirol interfaces but the ones in my price range didn't have enough inputs, although I think they did have zero latency monitoring.

Thanks again guys

Dave
 
Hey Dave
The Lexicon IONIX looks like it could be a contender. What are the reviews saying is bad about it?

The Lexicon Omega being USB 1.1. kinda sucks, because it looks like it limits you to 44.1k recording as opposed to 48 or 96 (96 is pretty much standard now). If all you could muster up was the $180 for this unit, I'm sure you could make it work....

I know, I keep going back to the Firebox, but its hard to beat for the price. A lot of mics don't require tons of gain, so a slightly weaker preamp *might* not affect you. But, if the pre's are too weak, then you could get an external pre like the Audio Buddy for a few bucks more.
 
Jeff_D,

I'm getting the impression that you like the Firebox. Am I correct in my inference? :p

The firebox looks like an excellent unit for the price, even when taking into account the price hike over here I can still pick one up for around £180-190, possibly substantially less if I buy used from ebay.

I just can't get past this preamps / zero latency monitoring thing. The guy from PreSonus wouldn't directly answer my question about the preamps and just said that the Firestudio had better preamps which made me think that he was basically conceding that the preamps on the Firebox were weak. The U42S also has zero latency monitoring compared to the "low" latency monitoring on the Firebox. And the Firebox is soon to be discontinued which makes me wonder whether they will bother getting decent drivers for Windows 7 for when I eventually upgrade my OS.

However, the reviews about the U42S seem fairly unequivocal in their criticisms of Lexicon's technical support, with one reviewer mentioning that he received only one reply from around ten e-mails sent. This seems unacceptable, whereas the PreSonus site seems well set up for technical support and when I e-mailed them to enquire about the Firebox, they replied within hours, which was impressive (albeit I was talking about a potential sale as opposed to a technical issue). The other poor reviews about the U42S seemed to be about its incompatibility with Vista 64 Bit, but this seems like unjustified criticism as the website doesn't actually say that it is compatible with 64 bit, so why buy it in the first place if you are running 64-bit?

In summary:
  • I can get the firebox for around £40 cheaper than the U42S
  • The technical support at PreSonus seems to be much better
  • The U42S has zero latency monitoring wheras the Firebox does not
  • The preamps on the U42S *appear* to offer better gain than the Firebox

So it is a balance between features and cost and support. The PreSonus does appear to be better bang for the buck, notwithstanding the apparently weak preamps, however their own staff couldn't assure me that it was compatible with my Laptop, despite me giving a detailed description of my Laptop model and specs - the guy just told me to check out their list of known compatible and incompatible hardware which is available on their site (and this didn't make a lot of sense to a non tech guy like me).

So right now my choice appears to be between the Firebox and the U42S and I have not yet made a choice.

Incidentally, when I do make a choice and I make some recordings, I will post my review of the interface on here along with my recordings as a kind of pathetic "thankyou" for all the help I'm getting.

Thanks again,

Dave
 
Correction - the guy from PreSonus (Rick Naqvi) replied in less than an hour!
 
Hey dave- I don't want to steer you wrong- I haven't used the Firebox- I'm comparing these the same way you are- from specs and features and stuff. I do own a Presonus D8 preamp and its fine. I've used the old Firepods in the past- a friend had two of them connected in his home studio. They performed fine for the few days we recorded there (his room was all carpeted- walls and all, so it didn't sound that great, but thats not Presonus' fault :p)

I also own a Lexicon effects unit. Its been in my rack for like 7 or 8 years now. I don't use it much- little verb on the PA vocal channels, but it's never not done exactly what it was supposed to. I suspect their rack effects units have less potential for malfunction than an audio interface though, what, with having the potential for driver issues.

Personally, I like MAudio stuff, but the closest thing from MAudio would be something like the the FireWire610 which is $400 over here.


I *WISH* they would make more firewire interfaces without preamps.
 
Guys,

Thanks for all the help,

I have finally ordered an audio interface....

I went for the Lexicon U42S.

Reasons include that it is USB (my laptop has only a 4 pin firewire port and I've heard of problems with the firewire on my model of laptop), it has just the right amout of inputs for me, I've heard great things about the preamps and I've read a few excellent reviews - I even (possibly foolishly?) bought a review from Music Tech Mag for £0.99 which rated it as 9/10. And I *know* it's not really important but it looks so slick!

Things I am worried about are that the Lexicon technical support sucks, and that I will have general technical issues since I am a newbie.

I will post some sort of review when I get it up and running - it should be delivered in 3 days time). I have a 14 day money back guarantee though so, as long as I don't register the software, I can return it if it's not for me.

Thanks again for all the help, I hope I've made the right choice!

Dave
 
Did you get your U42S

I am looking for an audio interface for my Powerbook. I am considering the U42S. Did you get it and how do you like it so far?

I am also considering Fast Track Ultra. Not sure what others I should consider?
 
strangedogs said:
I
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN QUALITY in firewire or USB - the difference is throughput. If all you're recording is 1 or 2 tracks at one time then USB will work fine and it'll be less expensive. I record a track, then another, then another, etc and "layer" or "overdub". If you're going to need multiple tracks at one time then firewire is best.
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I still have a hard time believing this myth still exists. Dude, I routinely record 8 tracks (24/44.1) simultaneously on my Zoom R16 interface. It's actually quite capable and it's USB. It will also record at 24/96khz ( 2 tracks at a time) or 24/44.1 8 tracks at a time. :cool:

As far as the sampling rate is concerned, I've been at this for quite awhile....I've yet to hear a sonic difference with multiple tracks at 44.1 vs 48 or higher. I'm not saying there isn't a difference, but IMHO, it's minuscule and borderline irrelevant for a home recorder.
 
daveyboy909 said:
Hi guys,

Before I start I just want you to know that I have spent a fair amount of time researching this. I knew absolutely nothing about it a month ago. I have read through a lot of reviews and forums and I have gone through a lot of threads on here and on other sites too, but I thought I would make my own thread in the hope that someone can help with my specific needs!


What I already have
Yamaha MG166cx mixing desk (not the USB version)
Roland RD700sx digital piano
Roland DM 2100 speaker system
2 Yamaha MSR400 speakers
Sennheiser e835s microphone (I know dynamic mics aren't ideal for recording but I am prepared to go with it just now)
Adobe Audition

A dell xps M1330 laptop (2048MB 667MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM [2x1024], Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7250 (2.00 GHz, 2 MB L2 cache, 800 MHz FSB))



What I will be Doing
I am not a computer expert - not anywhere near it. I just play my digital piano and write songs for my small band. The band consists of me, a drummer who also plays guitar and a bass player.

I will usually be using the audio interface to record myself playing my digital piano and vocals, sometimes at the same time and sometimes separately overdubbing the vocals. Other band members may also play at the same time or overdub their part. This is where my requirement for a very low latency piece of hardware comes in.

I would also like to be able to edit each track e.g. volume etc separately even if I have recorded them at the same time. According to the Audio Interface Wizard, this means I would need several analogue outputs. (Although this is not completely necessary)

My mixer could be used for the preamps and for submixing frums etc but I would prefer to just use the audio interface for portability reasons. I may not bother with drums on some recordings anyway.

What I want
I just want an audio interface that is NOT complicated to use. As far as possible, I would like it to be plug and play. As this is just a hobby, I would be prepared to sacrifice a little bit of sound quality for a piece of hardware that I would not have to spend hours on trying to figure out!

I don't really have a preference whether it is USB 1, USB 2 or firewire, although I am aware that firewire would likely give the best quality but at a higher price.

I have been very close to buying the Yamaha Audiogram 6 but I have decided to be patient and wait for advice. I have read as many forum threads and review on it as I can find with the usual mix of positive and negative comments. I was attracted to it because it is Yamaha and it seems fairly simple but it is only USB 1.1 which is odd for such a new audio interface and I have read about other issues e.g. with the drivers etc.

I would really like the software to be simple to use. I'm not bothered about really advanced features.


Budget
If I am just buying an audio interface, my budget would be around £200 (british pounds - around £330 USD i think). The Audiogram fits well within this budget.

If you suggest that I would need extra equipment then I would increase the budget by another £100 or so. As I say, this is just a hobby and I don't want to spend thousands of pounds.

In a nutshell I would like to buy an audio interface that has a few inputs for microphone, stereo input for my digital piano, hopefully with decent preamps, hopefully but not necessarily with a few analogue outputs, and with a decent sound quality:ease of use ratio. Because I will be overdubbing different parts, I would like it to have audio playback via headphones and there would have to be no latency or at least very little latency

USB 2 seems the way to go for better quality recording and lower latency but I wouldn't rule out a USB 1.1 card like the audiogram if the sound quality and ease of use would be good.

I know this has been a long post but I wanted to give as much details as possible. I hope someone can help with some recommended audio interfaces and please be gentle :)

Thanks

Dave
Click to expand...

Best post ever.
 
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