Attn. Dragon-How about a singer's forum?

  • Thread starter Thread starter chessparov
  • Start date Start date
JK, what you're saying does make a lot of good sense, but i still think to some degree it depends on the person. For one thing, there are some teachers out there that really are full of bull (i know you said get a good teacher), and sometimes you have spent a good deal of money before you find that out. And then even the best teacher can't guarentee you any success whatsoever a few years down the road.

I think the best approach for DIY is to sing with your favorite artists and emulate what they do rather than buying a lot of cds on how to sing. But again, i think that each person has to do what works for them.

t
 
Jerry, you're correct that IF you find the right kind of instructor you
progress much faster. The level of technique required, however, depends
on the degree of challenge a song gives you. For example, I love to sing
"singer-songwriter" stuff like Cat Stevens, James Taylor, Jim Croce, etc.,
as much as selections from "The Marriage of Figaro". Since singing is a
hobby for me I chose to stick to easier pop music and acapella genres.

langleyt, learning and listening to artists who sing material within your
comfortable range is a great way to improve your interpretive ability
and style(s). After a certain amount of time (at least for me), you can
start synthesizing all that to create your own "style".

P.S. Jerry, I hope everything is going well for you (and all the other bbs
members) in New York!
 
Randy,
Currently this is the singer's forum. Post your question on this thread.

Queue

(welcome to Homerec):)
 
Randy, I second the welcome! Feel free to post any questions/comments.
 
How do you get "dirty"

In continuance of the "Singer's forum" here...

I don't mean inserting lyrics that'll get you a PMRC sticker, I mean that 'grit' that so many great rock vocalists seem to have.

My voice always sounds so damn clear. The only time it sounds "dirty" is either when I'm sick or when I've been singing for a long time, and my voice is on its way out.

Is this something that is innate?

Can I develop a technique?

Do I need to start smoking? :eek:

and drinking? :eek: :eek:

Queue
 
Q, funny you should bring this up. I also have a clear (lyric) voice and want
to sing with more of a "rock" edge. The smoking/(excessive) drinking thing
is really a myth as it's self-destructive to the vocal chords (lighting a
replaceable guitar worked great for Hendrix though!).

The approach I'm using is to stay primarily between a low F and E flat,
since I'm a baritone. A second (low) tenor might normally stay between
a low G and F sharp, (1st) tenors about low A and A flat.
This would be for rock/blues type of material, when I sing lead in an
acapella quartet I have to be able to sustain solid F's and F sharps.

Singers like Steve Perry have "compensated" for their clear voices by
singing with greater intensity for more emotional impact.

P.S. Could you imagine if Art Garfunkel covered Led Zeppelin?
Goes to show us that even if you have a beautiful voice there
still are limitations.....
 
Q, you may also want to try recording with a Shure SM57 or SM58.
Works for Mick Jagger, Tom Petty, Bono, etc. It seems to give my
voice more authenticity on rock type songs, rather than a cleaner
mike like the C1 (even though I love it!).
 
Dirty Vocals

When a friend of mine was laying down vocals for his tracks, he would eat cheese. He said something about getting his throat nice and coated with that good stuff.

I haven't used any cheese when tracking. It just somehow gets out. Have you ever imitated a pirate? You know, "Arg! Avast! You are all after my booty!" Try doing that pirate voice and then try singing it with that same voice. It's that same voice that you use at a football game when you yell at someone... "Why'd you fumble the ball, you loser." or "Hey, number 34, you suck!" It comes in extreme yelling situations... not the loud booming voice, but the angry, thinner, vocal chords trembling voice.

If that doesn't work, try the cheese.
 
Ahoy matey! Beware of the "pirate voice"-you can damage your voice
permanently like that. "Set Your Voice Free" by Roger Love covers this,
and how dairy products cause phelgm that makes your singing less clear.
Pop singers like Elton John, Stevie Nicks, etc., all developed problems
like vocal cord nodes by using their voice improperly.
 
So, damage my voice, eh? Looks like I won't be singing with that voice anymore. Arrghhh!!! Avast!!!

Thanks for the warning.
 
Sure thing, tdaw. I have a friend who has a REAL rock and roll type voice,
and it's fun to sing along with him (I like singing background vocals too!).
The "power pop" genre is good for melodic singers who still like to rock.
I guess I'll never sing "Back in Black" though, oh well.......
 
I know what you mean Queue about having a clear voice. I would like to have that Stevie Nicks or Kim Carnes kind of sound instead of what my mom calls my Karen Carpenter voice.

I think chessparov has a good point with the 'intensity' aspect. And i love Steve Perry. I think maybe Ann Wilson is a good female example of what you are talking about chess.

I just bought a used EV PL80 microphone for my vocals and i really like it. EV is really the only mic i've ever worked with so i should probably have tested other brands (like the C1) but i got this one for $65. I experimented with it for several hours and sang myself into the 'pirate voice' Arghh. But i am satisfied with the way it picks up my vocals close up and from a distance.

I'm gonna try to take chessparov's advice and take care of my vocal chords, but i'll probably be doing some more experimenting until i'm hoarse again. :eek:

t
 
Re: "Karen Carpenter voice"

langleyt, a comparison to Karen Carpenter is really a compliment!
Hidden behind those MOR love songs was one one of the most beautiful
(and sexy) female voices in pop history. Stevie Nicks has a "good voice",
yet IMHO not in the same league as Karen's was. Sounds like you have
a rich alto singing voice. Great for ballads and melodic material.
 
Thanks Chessparov, alto is exactly what i sing and when my band was still together the guys always wrote ballad type love songs for me to sing.

My mom had that grey album by the Carpenters, i can't remember what that one was called, and i grew up knowing every word to every one of those songs on that album. I shouldn't have made it seem like i was putting Karen Carpenter down because i still play the Carpenters every now and then to practice with. :)

t
 
langleyt, actually I understood the context of your comment,
and I was a fan of the Carpenters even when it wasn't "cool"
to like them. Another singer you may want to listen to is
Dusty Springfield, her album "Dusty in Memphis" is a classic 60's
soul album and she could belt out pop tunes with seismic
intensity too.
 
I downloaded some of Dusty Springfield's music. I haven't really had a chance to listen yet, but it sounds like she had some great songs. Maybe i'll try to learn some of them. Thanks again chessparov.

t
 
HI ALL,


1) A Singers Forum.

GREAT IDEA!! Lots to discuss & argue about.


2) Books & tapes instead of lessons.

Bad, bad idea. Sorry Chess, I think shit like that can
cause more harm then good.
I found in my lessons that I needed to trust my
Singing Coach's ears, rather then my own for many years.

Plus, do you not feel that you could develop even
worse habits, such as over nasality, then what
you all ready have ?


3) I want my voice to sound like....

Bad thought process.

Food for thought. Think of your favorite singer.
Mine is probably Brad DeLP, lead form the group Boston.
Now, tell me who that singer sounds like. BRAD DELP!

Let your voice be your own. Do not become an imitator.
Unless you have that type of talent to begin with you will not
develop it in voice lessons.

Besides, your own qualities & nuisances will be just fine.
 
On the other hand, smellyfuzz, look at the new "Steve" acting as
lead vocalist in Journey, or the current singer for Judas Priest picked from a tribute band!

If you guys (and gals) don't mind I'll tell you more precisely what
I do to improve-and it does work (at least for me).

1) Once a week I go to basically an acapella "workshop" singing
environment. There are at least a couple of singers there more
advanced in one aspect of singing skill than myself.
This balances out the "ivory tower" learning next (#2 below)
and give me a performing platform to intelligently experiment.
Singing with other singers helps me to better tune my voice.

2) The 2 books previously mentioned by me in this thread have
helped me "secure" my high notes by about a full step (one
note) improvement. In addition, the overall tone quality is
better too, as noted by the other singers mentioned above.

3) I use both my 2 and 4 track recorders to sing both with and
without instrumentation (without any effects) as a vocal mirror.
A hi-fi VCR works very well in this capacity, by the way.

4) Also I drink 8+ glasses of water a day IN ADDITION to any
other (soda/tea for me) beverages-really helps the vocal
chords. No smoking either-very hard on a voice!

5) I listen to other artists I admire to better phrase and interpret
material-not to copy them. Singing along is fine as long as you
stay in your comfortable range to learn more "style".


My method is geared towards being a strong pop singer, not
legit/classical/opera, that neccesitate a higher skill level.
You will, however, become better skilled than Top 40 artists
that need a lot of Autotune!

P.S. It does help to have a decent microphone and mic pre to
record yourself with better fidelity.
 
Great post.

CHESS:

All excellent points that I have not thought of.

I'm just a little conservative with the whole "who do you sound like" question.

To many bands wanted me to sound just like...

Of corse, as you noted there are exceptions.

I never even thought of a singers work shop.

I would love to get involved in one here on Long Island.

How did you find yours ?
 
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