Attention Athlon motherboard shoppers/owners

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RWhite

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I'd been flirting with the idea of upgrading my primary general-purpose computer from PIII to Athlon for some time now. I want to do this prior to replacing that system's Windows 98SE with Windows XP. I'll probably keep my primary studio system as PIII and Win98 for now (my Gadget Labs card in that box doesn't work with W2000 or XP). My upgrade cost has been helped out due to a friend giving me a good deal on a Athlon 1.4 chip as he is upgrading to an Athlon XP 1.8.

So I spent part of the weekend motherboard shopping at a big computer swap meet. I have not made my choice yet. Because I am trying to do this upgrade as cheaply as possible, and because I already have plenty of PC133 SDRAM on hand, I looked at motherboards that supported SDRAM rather than DDR RAM. Now I don't want to re-ignite the SDRAM vs. DDR debate. I've heard everything from "the difference is no more than a 10% speed increase" to "the difference is HUGE". Suffice to say I'm going to stick to SDRAM for now and do a heftier CPU/RAM upgrade at the end of the year.

One thing quicly became apparent - the vast majority of SDRAM Athlon motherboards out there use the VIA KT133A chipset. Now, I also don't want to re-ignite the usual "lets bash VIA" sentiment. Both of the systems I record on now are ASUS PIII P3V4X boards using the VIA Apollo Pro 133A chipset, and they have worked well for me. But at the same time I have seen more than enough anti-VIA sentiment, with particular mention of the KT133A, that I am feeling a bit cautious about board using these chips.

Now with the ground work laid out, below are some of the motherboard choices I found. I believe all of them have on-board audio, which I don't like, but they all claim it can be disabled. We shall see. Any comments about the boards and/or their chipsets are much appreciated.

Matsonic 8137CP board, VIA Apollo KT266A chipset - This is probably my top choice. I've heard repeatedly that the 266 chipset was a dog, but the 266A set fixed all the problems. This board has 2 SDRAM DIMM sockets but also 3 DDR sockets for later upgrading (of course you can't use both at once).

ECS K7AMA board, ALIM1645 chipset - Don't know much about this chipset. I believe this one also has both SDRAM and DDR slot so you can use SDRAM now and upgrade later.

ECS K755A board, SIS735 chipset - SIS have collected the rep of having weak chipsets in weak boards. However I've heard comments that this set has been a decent one. One negative (in my book) is that it has an on-board NIC - hopefully it can be shut off so as to not interfere with my 3COM card. Anyone have one of these?

ABIT K77A board, VIA KT133A chipset - this seemed like a solid board, if I remember correctly it allowed the largest total amount of SDRAM of any board I saw. The chipset is the big question mark.

Gigabyte GA7ZXH, VIA KT133A chipset - Actually Gigabyte has several boards based on this chipset. Gigabyte generally stands next to ASUS as my favorite motherboard maker, in my experiance they make good products. Again the chipset is the big question mark.

I need to make a choice in the next few days. The Matsonic on paper seems to be the best choice, but what very little I have heard about this manufacturer has been unflattering. So, having laid that all out.... comments, anyone?
 
Hi!

I did my upgrade a few months ago. I didn't get too much involved in all the techie talk, but here's what I found out (painfully by myself):

The board I bought first didn't really work well with my soundcards (Audiowerk8 and SBLive). It caused clicks and pops during recording and playback. It was a ECS K7VTA3 (the old version, they have a new version of it out now), and guess what the chipset was: VIA KT266!

The next board I bought, which is what I still use, is the K7AMA from ECS. The reason I bought it was the chipset, because my old mobo had an Ali chipset and worked fine. I don't know how good it really is in comparison to other chipsets, but it worked good for me, so I bought it. You are right in saying that it has both SDRAM and DDR slots. It has (only) 2 of both, and they can't be used simultaneously; So either SDRAM or DDR. Another disadvantage might be that it has only got 4 PCI slots, so if you're running a system with a lot of cards, there may be not enough ports to plug them all in. Oh, and it has LAN onboard. And sound, too, but that can be disabled.

Hope that helped,

David.
 
I've heard a couple things in reference to Via: SB Lives tend to be one of the main cards that have problems with Via chipsets. And I've heard that if you stick with a better soundcard than a SB you should be ok. I'm not too familiar with Audiowerk8.
 
RWhite, I'll be upgrading my PIII to an XP tommorow. ECS K7S5A, 256DDR, XP 1800. I'll let you know how it goes.
 
my abit KT7A-raid(raid not used) has been stellar. i use a 1.2 AMD.
your 1.4 would fit there nicely. don't know the price's but they've probably come down by now. when i build my xp 1.8,i will continue to record on this one.
 
I have K7S5A with Athlon XP 1700+ right now. Main reasons I got it were cheap price, chipset speed and ability to accept SDRAM. I like the idea that I will be able to upgrade memory if and when needed. So far I've been doing up to 20 tracks in Nuendo, with more than a dozen insert effects and 2 - 3 reverbs and didn't have any problems. Hard drive is fast Seagate Barracuda IV.

I had trouble with my first mobo, which refused to POST. Changed it for a new one and it worked right out of the box. You can disable integrated network, sound with MIDI and USB, if you want. No problem.

Most problems people have with this board are results of unstable power, heat and wrong connections (which is not surprising given minimalism of the manual). If you get it going, it is stable and fast. And if you have built at least one computer in the past, you'll manage it.
 
Thanks for all the replies!
Nessbass, you have me bummed out... I had almost settled on the Matsonic & 266A, and my system will indeed be using a SoundBlaster card (have been using a Live but am switching to an Audigy). I guess if I do try that board, I'll leave my current Win98 in place long enough to do some serious recording testing.
 
Be careful with Audigy: it is not 96khz card. It can only record at 24/48. It is only with S/PDIF that you can get 24/96.
 
Yes, I've been following the story on the Audigy. In fact I'd like to write a short review of it for this room, I'll be upgrading my SB Live to an Audigy just as soon as I settle on a new Mobo. I bought one of the value ones ($65) and want to try it out playing back 24 bit / 44.1 Cakewalk & Sound Forge projects that have been created on my other system.
 
guys im running a amd-k6 475mhz with 512 mb of ram a 5400 and 7200 hd. The o.s. is windows 98se and windows xp (dual boot). i use windows 98se for the audio stuff. heres the deal. i want to upgrade to i can work with plug ins and fx. i can get like 12-16 STEREO tracks with the above setup but i CANT add fx and plug ins. it will lag, drag, spit, bite,howl,jitter and scratch. you name it it does it.

i did a BIOS test today and this is what i found.

CHIPSET: SiS530 rev 2

SUPER I/O CHIP: ITE 8661/SiS 6801 found at port 279h

BIOS: Award Modular BIOS v4.51PG

when i did the test i tested everything i could and nothing failed.

i want to stick with amd as i havent had problems with it (except a fan issue). so my questions are:


1. any recommendations on a new motherboard and chipset? i want the same features and functions only i want the computer do be faster.


2.who or what is SOYO? i see that alot when i look INSIDE the computer. this is amd right or has something to do with te chips correct?


3. i came across this:

http://www.awaremag.com/hardware/soyo/k7vtapro/k7vtap_1.html


is this a product i could use?


4. what should the temp of the pc be? how hot should it get inside and what temp should i try to keep it at?


please bear with me as i am NOT a computer guru/master/techie.

thanx for any replies and help. i appreciate it.


czar
 
Czar - as you probably figured out already, Soyo are simply another motherboard manufacturer. I'm familiar with their name, but have never owned one of their boards so I really can't comment on them. The review of the board didn't have a date on it, but it looks like it might be a few months old. I think the only reservation with this board is the same as I laid out in my initial post, namely it uses the VIA KT133A chipset which has caused some users audio problems. This doesn't at all guarantee that YOU will have audio problems, just that it's a possibility to be concerned about.

As for your initial issues with your current system, the AMD K6 family of CPUs were known for having very poor floating-point performance. This is particularly relevant when talking about plug-ins, which use a lot of floating point. The K7 or Athlon chip is a massive improvement in this area.
 
k6 upgrade - czar

you can easily upgrade to at least a 1 Ghz. with a K6 mobo, if I remember correctly. this will probably begin to solve your problems. I would even recommend upgrading your mobo and cpu to an AMD 1800 or 1900 if you can afford it. I like the DDR ram and faster bus. MSI motherboards are really solid. not bragging here, but I am A+ certified in PC repair, so I like to think I know what I'm talking about.
 
The K6 topped out at 300MHz, the K6-2(3) topped out at 533MHz(maybe 550, whats 33MHz?). This is old stuff, super socket 7, no upgrade path for you Czar. New motherboard, chip and possibly memory is in your future.
 
New motherboard, chip and possibly memory is in your future.
Click to expand...
i figured that........if im not mistaking i have PNY sdram installed. it says its for pc133/100/66 so will the new board be able to hold it? price watch.com looks pretty nice. i think i can possibly get away with the mobo combo and ram for under $300. price watch has several deals.......this si MADNESS. EVERYTIME i get comfortable i find out i need this or i need that. its not so much as a WANT but i feel as though i NEED to eb able to use the plug ins...is that a crime?????


thanks guys. you have been a help.

seriously you have.


czar
 
Czar - There is always a faster PC coming out. But seriously, I think right now for 95% of all existing computer applications out there, something like a PIII 500 is all the processor needed. Audio is fairly CPU intensive, yet I've been able to do anything I want (up to 20 tracks 24 bit audio with a few plug-ins) with a PIII 533. In your case, because of the deficencies of the K6, an upgrade would make a lot of sense. And the price is very reasonable. For me its more wanting to get snappier performance in XP and games, with the added benifit that my PIII 933 cpu (which I'm replacing with the Athlon) will "trickle down" to replace my studio's PIII 533.

As for your RAM, if it says PC133 on it you would be able to use it in that SOYO motherboard. Athlon motherboards using DDR RAM would require new RAM, as PC133 SDRAM and DDR are not compatible. Again, going back to my original post, just how much of an improvement DDR gives depends on who you ask. There are other new memory types coming out soon that are potentially even faster than DDR, so I seen nothing wrong with following my plan - keep the SDRAM RAM you have now, and expect to do another even faster upgrade later. Even with your current RAM I think you will find an upgrade to an Athlon a pleasent change.

Happs01, I guess you missed that question on the exam about the difference between a K6 & a K7? Just fooling.... Seriously, the fastest K6 I ever saw (and I stopped looking awhile ago) was a K62-3D at 550 mhtz. I have not seen anyone selling them for some time, although I'm sure they could still be found on the web.

Now come on, aren't there any more motherboard opinions out there? I need to buy something soon, I might have gone for that Matsonic board already but the local vendor is out of stock for a few days.
 
I've posted this link from Pete Leoni several times before on building your own Thunderbird:

http://prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/articles/D6A94D6B2F7DA99186256A7F00747CC9

And the Audigy, while a very nice card for the price, neither plays back nor records in 24/96.

Here's a quote from www.tomshardware.com

"But be warned, the Audigy's ability to support 24-bit/ 96-kHz sound is very relative. Unlike the DMX 6Fire 24/96, the Audigy Platinum is not a "true" 24/96 and cannot play or record a file of this quality, nor even work on it. Actually, the only task it does in 96 kHz is a linkup with another device via the S/PDIF input. The card and rack components are all supposed to be 24-bit/ 96-kHz-compatible, but, in practice, the card is limited to 16 bits/ 48 kHz. Analog recording and restitution is possible in 24 bits/ 48 kHz, but, in fact, the processor downsamples in 16 bits and then upsamples. "
 
tdukex - yes, I've read that article before, it's a good one although the hardware references are growing a bit out of date. Interesting that he went with a 266 chipset over the KT133a. I'd forgotten that the RYO article was another case where the real improvement of DDR RAM over SDRAM was questioned. On the flipside, a vendor I trust recently told me he changed his own "dual SRAM/DDR mobo over to DDR and saw a major difference. So who's to say for sure, without trying it?

The item from Tom's about the Audigy's specs is interesting. I trust Tom'site, and I already knew that the card would not record at 24 bit or handle 96K at all, but I THOUGHT it could play back 24 bit/48 files. If it can't, then I really don't see it as any improvement over my SB Live, which will play back 24 bit files by just hacking off 8 bits.
 
And the winner is.....

After spending some lunch time and evening hours doing more research, I think I'm going to go with the ECS K7S5A motherboard. When I think of SIS I recall some weak OEM Pentium boards, but they seem to have impressed a lot of press people with their new chips, and ECS with this board. Only negative I can find is just two each of SDDRAM or DDR slots, but for the short term two 256 meg SDRAM DIMMS should be enough for me. The fact that the board is poor for overclocking is meaningless to me, I stopped fooling arround with that some time ago. Unless I come across some last moment skeletons, I'll pick up one tomorrow.

Best part of this whole deal is the price. By re-using SDRAM I already have, and getting a deal on the CPU, I can move into a 1.4 Athlon w/motherboard w/RAM for $150.

For anyone also searching for a inexpensive Athlon motherboard, here is some press about K7S5A:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/mainboard/01q3/010924/index.html

http://www.accelenation.com/?doc=52
 
once again i have questions so please bear with me.

1.do i have to REFORMAT the hard drive when i upgrade the motherboard?

2.do i need a new graphics card or can i keep the old one?

czar


ps a lot of this technical stuff is NEW to me. i now understand that its MORE to computer recording than just a sound card and cubase. thanks a lot.
 
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