Attaining that Rich and Lush sounding low end on toms?

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RawDepth

RawDepth

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When I listen to rock or country songs on the radio, I notice that the toms (and bass too) often sound really fat, full, rich, and lush in the low end. The toms really get my attention without being on top of the music. When I try to EQ that richness in my DAW, they just end up sounding, well, overhyped with EQ. (I mix entirely in-the-box.)

Of course, I've gone through the tracking tweaks. I've tried umpteen different mics on toms, mic positioning, different drum heads, and the usual stuff. My toms sound way better now, but I still have not found complete satisfaction.

So, I figure there must be something besides EQ giving them that luxurious sound. Could it be something like the Aphex Big-Bottom or (as I've read,) does stemming the drums through an analog summing amp add that fat low end? …Or are there other secret weapons I don't know about?

My stupid question is really this...short of buying a $50,000+ console, can certain analog gear get me closer to my goal?
 
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I hate to say the "really amazing kit" thing, but that's all I ever seem to find. A really great sounding kit, properly tuned (of course), with minimal if any processing.

I was working FOH last weekend and there was a kit that couldn't sound bad. I had cheapie little MD504's on them that weren't even breathing. They were tuned to within a millimeter of perfection (which makes all the difference in the world, even on a cheap kit) and every hit was like the hammer of Thor (which makes all the difference in the world, even on a cheap kit). The toms sounded fantastic even if I was only using the overheads.

#TonsOfHeadroom -- That's a given.

But I'd argue dumping $$$ into a different kit before anything else. This isn't much different than anything else -- Try to get a $400 (pick-a-brand) acoustic to sound like a $5,000 Martin -- All other things being equal, it isn't going to happen. The source is always 90% of the goal.
 
Massive speaks the truth. It really is the drum. It's along the same lines as guitar tone - you can't (really) fake/force it after the fact, it is what it is.


...I have an anecdotal FOH example, too - I distinctly remember this band of old hippies who played a really weird breed of hard rock / metal. The drummer's kit looked like the biggest pile of shit ever (and thus made my heart sink immediately...), but after it was mic'd up and I started level checking it... It was just... awesome. The sound of every drum in the kit was just... awesome. No special analog gear you're asking about necessary - not even any EQ necessary. It just sounded good. I've done FOH for bigger acts with real money and they always have way nicer equipment that (almost) always sounds great, but the point of this story is that it doesn't even have to be some super-fancy drums, they just have to be setup and tuned (and loved and caressed...etc etc) right...like how that old hippy had his ancient, decrepit looking yet fantastic sounding 1928 Pearls.
 
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Those old Pearl sets man. My first set was an ANCIENT pearl set loaned to me by my older cousin, who bought it off our local church when he wzas kid, who got it donated from a REALLY old hippie drummer in our community back in the 50's. Thought it sounded like crap so I saved up and got a nice Pdp kit, which sounds great, then loaned the Pearl kit to a freind who put all new heads on it and then tuned it right. All the sudden it sounded like we stole it from John Bonam's place. They just don't make em like they used to, the old pearl set's are priceless.
 
Before buying a new kit, I'd get brand new top and bottom skins for the kit you have. Unless they're made of ply-wood, you can get a very good sound on just about any kit with new skins and knowing how to tune them.
 
A good kit with the right brand new heads is 95% of the equation.
 
Thanks everyone.

My kit is average. It is a new set of Pearl, Visions. All heads are new and they are indeed well tuned. I am 90% of the way there. My toms sound damn good, but I am seeking something more like "glorious." I was basically asking if analog gear can help with that last 10%. I remember reading something about low order distortion adding low end and wanted to know if it would be useful here.

I also own an old set of Tama Rockstar DX with extended-length toms. Perhaps someday I will bring them home from the band rehearsal room and try them out in the studio.
 
With that kit (pearls) and good heads, you should be able to get the sound you want....if you cant, its not the drums themselves.
 
RawDepth said:
Or are there other secret weapons I don't know about?
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The natural sound of the drums in the room is of course the most important part, but I've found that cutting the upper bass range around 300 Hz with a Q of 2 or 3 can go a long way toward improving the sound of toms.

--Ethan
 
If you really do desire that low end thump and have tried every method and technique before the recording process. Then you can try using something like a multiband compressor and bring out the lows and mid lows. Also, as do what some people do to add bottom end to kick drums is to add some low noise as someone here stated, pretty much, this involves having a sidechain in which the low noise is keyed in via the tom wave signal and works pretty much like a gate. Or what I do if you have the waves package, and use the Rbass plugin to add the bottom end to the drum and gate as needed.
 
RawDepth said:
My kit is average. It is a new set of Pearl, Visions. All heads are new and they are indeed well tuned. I am 90% of the way there.
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What vision kit is it? Visions are good kits man, especially the lacquer series. Is the Rockstar a all maple or birch kit?
 
Guitargodgt said:
What vision kit is it? Visions are good kits man, especially the lacquer series. Is the Rockstar a all maple or birch kit?
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The Pearl kit is VSX. They are alternated Birch and Basswood plies.

The Tama kit is DX. They are Philippine Mahogany and 1 inner ply of Basswood.

I consider both kits to be middle-range quality. I only paid around $700 or $800 for each shell pack. Not exactly high end studio kits, but they do okay with the right heads on.
 
I agree that a good kit in a good room played by a good drummer is how you get the sound. In my studio when this turns up my job is so easy, I can tell within seconds that we are going to get a great drum recording.

Having said that, the drummer in my band (who also is a sound engineer) has 2 kits, the good kit sounds fantastic as it should, however he has a second kit for use at home which is made up of hock shop buys, different brand drums (some no name brands) this kit is sometimes dragged out for rehearsals. This kit also sounds great. Why is it so? He has replaced the hardware with the good stuff, machined the bearing edges to spec (this is very important), and put the best skins on top and bottom. Oh and he tunes it to perfection. He does this because he has studied how drums work and what make a great sound.

I would happily record either kit.

Cheers
Alan
 
assuming of course that they have been pretty decently recorded I've gotten the best results by subtracting a ton in the mids. Say 400-800 depending on the drum. That usually leaves me with nothing but the low end and the attack which is all you need. Some times I've literally gone as far as a -15db reduction in that area. Some may call it over kill but I love the sounds I get.
 
RAMI said:
Before buying a new kit, I'd get brand new top and bottom skins for the kit you have. Unless they're made of ply-wood, you can get a very good sound on just about any kit with new skins and knowing how to tune them.
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This.

/thread.
 
I hear a lot of good things about Pearls in the studio. I've tested vision kit @ my local GC at one point. I'm not sure which though, but to me it sound alright, definitely one of those kits that have the potential with the right heads on.
 
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