Article on Lyric Critique

  • Thread starter Thread starter JohnMoxey
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32-20-Blues said:
Very helpful, John, thanks for the clarification; vehicle is a useful term for thinking about song. 'Message', then, also corresponds somewhat to 'theme', then, but not to plot, right?

Don't worry about GoodFriend, he just has some strong ideas on songwriting (like all of us, I suppose :) ).

John, this has been a very interesting thread, thanks for instigating it.
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:) Thanks!

"Plot" in a songwriting context is just catch-all common terminology for the vehicle, theme, situation, underlying emotion etc. I guess they had to call it something so they could collectively refer to differing things that fulfill a similar role in the writing of the song.

What you may be thinking of as "plot", i.e. "storyline" I would think of as "How the plot develops" with a songwriting context.

"How the plot develops" as a phrase then refers to how the storyline, situation theme etc develops through the song. All types of plot should develop, so the concept is common to all.

I guess they could have used theme, but I think that would easily be confused with the well established notion of a musical theme, so therefor plot was used. :)

Cheers

John
 
JohnMoxey said:
:) Thanks!

"How the plot develops" as a phrase then refers to how the storyline, situation theme etc develops through the song. All types of plot should develop, so the concept is common to all.

I guess they could have used theme, but I think that would easily be confused with the well established notion of a musical theme, so therefor plot was used. :)

John
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I think the differentiation is a good one between theme and plot.

I would add that ‘plot development’ in a non-linear narrative work could also reflect on how a montages of images is built up to create a whole. There is something about ‘plot’ that denotes progression through a work with steps that can be analysed and reorganised, where as theme is much more holistic and in itself is beyond analysis, as it is the writers choice.

We can however analyse how successful the writer has been in communicating their theme by the clarity by which we perceive it – whether the writer has stated it outside the work or not.
 
Hey

I've been writing songs for about 28 years, an no I'm not an English Professor :).

Have any of you guys tried what I am suggesting? I'd be interested to hear back how you get on, and how you feel it benefits or detracts from your understanding, rate of learning, and ultimately how you approach your own songs. As I mention in the article, the learning you gain in critique can easily be re-focused to help you write better lyrics, first time, simply by improved awareness.

Cheers

John
 
JohnMoxey said:
Hey

I've been writing songs for about 28 years, an no I'm not an English Professor :).

Have any of you guys tried what I am suggesting? I'd be interested to hear back how you get on, and how you feel it benefits or detracts from your understanding, rate of learning, and ultimately how you approach your own songs. As I mention in the article, the learning you gain in critique can easily be re-focused to help you write better lyrics, first time, simply by improved awareness.

Cheers

John
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Do you have a link to some of your lyrics?
 
LI_Slim said:
Do you have a link to some of your lyrics?
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Hey

I don't keep my lyrics in one specific place on the web, although I have posted a few for critique, and a couple of sites where I have the mp3 for Awaken also have the lyrics posted. I think I even posted "Awaken" on homerecording.

I've dug out 3 lyrics, Awaken and two more recent, although they have changed a little since posting:

Too Late
Always On My Mind
Awaken

I'm not entirely happy with any of them, if truth be told. The title "Awaken" is actually redundant as the line which said that (backing vox) was removed in mixdown (completely illustrating that lyric critique is only part of the process, and certainly not the end of it). I did think of changing the name to "Eyes Wide Open" but it's not a new song, so it's not really a goer. "Too Late" could possibly do with another verse, and "Always On My Mind" was an exercise that grew into a song. I know the title/hook is a famous song and like it or not people will draw comparisons. Trouble is "Always on my Mind" is a good fit.

I like to write lyrics that work on more than one level, and I try to utilize ambiguity within a lyric to give room for the reader/listener to more closely identify with the singer/situation etc. Always on my Mind is an example of that kind of writing whereas Too Late is more direct.

That's all my excuses over with, until I think of some more ;)

Feel free to comment on the songs. :) I can dig out or post some more if you want.

Cheers

John
 
Hey

Been a while since I made the original post. I just wondered if any you guys had followed up on it? Tried any of the suggestions in both the topic and article?

Hope all is well with you, and that you had a great Christmas and a happy New Year :)

Cheers

John
 
Well John....

Why say "So let me try and explain" when you can say " Let me explain"

It gets worse.

Rewrite deleting all conditionals (should, could , would).

Delete all adverbs and adjectives.

Put back only the adverbs or adjectives that are necessary for clarity.

You will have condensed the work down to one or two paragraphs of pointed prose that will be way easier to read and understand.



chazba
 
Hey Chazba

Thanks for reading and replying.

Useful comments and good points. How the information was presented wasn't critique by most reviewers and it is one area I agree that I could improve greatly.

I had planned a revision. I will now review and edit based on your suggestions.

Do you have any comments on what I was saying, rather than how I said it?

Thanks again!

Cheers

John
 
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