Are they as bad as all that?

L

Luc the Tinkerer

New member
Okay, I confess, I have a shoestring budget thus my choice in equipment. I try my best to get the best bang for the buck: Apex Mics, E-MU 0404 audio card, AKG phones ...

I also use Behringer gear and was rather surprised of the negative feedback they receive: Eurorack 602A (I needed something nice and compact), Composer Pro compressor/limiter & Digital Virtualizer (which I hardly ever use any more).

Like a twit I went and got me a ART Tube MP thinking it would improve the sound of vocals and was left feeling a bit underwhelmed.

Is the Berhinger gear as bad as all that? To my ears the Eurorack mixer seems to be fairly transparent sounding (then again I have nothing to compare it to) if a bit lifeless. It's perfectly clean as long as I leave the EQ flat (the High control adds hiss, the bass control adds rumble) ...

I mean, isn't clean and flat a good thing? :confused:
 
They work. They aren't bad for the price. I mean, you're not going to go to Homereccer hell for owning Behringer gear. If you like the sound of it, USE it! :)

The Tube MP isn't supposed to make things sound better- its supposed to make them sound tubey-er. For some things that's better and vocals generally isn't one of them (unless you're using pricey tube gear- different beasts alltogether.) Its specifically NOT a clean preamp- but as such offers you some options compared to the cleaner Behri pres.

The MP is a fantatsic bass DI box and a decent enough pre for the money. It also works well for Guitar DI's if you're using software "amps" or just plain old micing up the guitar cabinet. I've even used mine on acoustic guitar, though I typically reach for cleaner pres.

At the budget level... there really isn't all that much that's going to slap you in the face and make you say "Wow! What a huge improvement in sound!" except the FMR Audio RNC, RNLA, and RNP. Also,I'm not at all familiar with the Apex mics, but my experience is that you get what you pay for with vocal mics. The budget mics don't sound bad, but you have to work really hard to get a "great" sound out of them.

Take care,
Chris
 
The MP does really well on rock vocals, by the way. I forgot to mention that. Just not the vocal pre to try first if you're looking for a pristine sound.

-C
 
IMO, the thing that is missing from the Behringers isn't sound quality. They measure up nicely to units in their range, and even beyond. They copy most of their designs from industry standard products so they generally sound close to the good designs. The thing with them is that they cost cut the QC and components they use, which are sub-par and are far more likely to fail. You have to think of it as a step in the learning process, something to use and throw away in a few years, then they are fine. They aren't a long term investment though. Their line of products suffer from this in varying degrees too, the mixers are especially prone to dying under mysterious circumstances, while you hardly ever hear anything go wrong with their headphone amps for some reason.
 
I guess having the Apex 435 sounding a bit too boomy on vocals (and too thin with the bass roll-off switch in) is what motivated the purchase of the ART preamp in the first place, little did I know it wouldn't do the "pristine sound" ... should have done my research :p

So I invested in a Apex 460 Tube mic (the salesman described it as a "wonderful, wonderful mic"), same result or almost. I read from another review that sawpping the tube with a higher end 12AX7 would improve the clarity & top end, so I ordered a pair of Ei 12Ax7's for the mic and try a sawp, use the tube that sounds best ...

As long as the Berhinger mixer stays clean (as long as I keep that mic gain at 12 o'clock and that EQ flat) and transparent enough I guess that will give me a good idea on whether or not that new Apex mic (large diaphragm tube condensor) will bring out the best in this baritone's voice! ;)
 
Try backing off from the mic a bit if your right up on it while singing. The closer you are to a cardioid mic the bassier it gets. Try singing off axis (i.e. 45 deg. off center or so), too. The mics should give you different sounds from different angles.

Experiment a bit. Find out what your mics do (hell, put one across the room and see how it sounds... you never know...).

The answer to getting better sound is rarely just "buy something else." Chances are the stuff you have CAN get a better sound than you're currently getting. Mix things up and get to know the gear then you will KNOW when the time has come to buy something else. Then you'll know what to buy and why.

Have fun,
Chris
 
Chris Shaeffer said:
Try backing off from the mic a bit if your right up on it while singing. The closer you are to a cardioid mic the bassier it gets. Try singing off axis (i.e. 45 deg. off center or so), too. The mics should give you different sounds from different angles.

Experiment a bit. Find out what your mics do (hell, put one across the room and see how it sounds... you never know...).

The answer to getting better sound is rarely just "buy something else." Chances are the stuff you have CAN get a better sound than you're currently getting. Mix things up and get to know the gear then you will KNOW when the time has come to buy something else. Then you'll know what to buy and why.

Have fun,
Chris
Click to expand...

The 460 is so sensitive I need to stand about 2 feet away for the proximity effect to recede ... my 'vocal booth' consists of a duvet comforter draped across the entrance of my kitchenette (needless to say it gets hot and humid in a hurry in that kitchenette).

The 460 also features a variable mic pattern, cardioid, omni, figure 8 and various degrees of "in between", I haven't had a chance to experiment with it.

I'll sing off axis as a matter of course (reduces plausives & sibillance, also allows me to stare at my lyrics sheet! :p ) and I'll use the expander/gate feature on the Composer Pro to keep outside noise at a minimum (cat meowing at me wondering what the heck I'm doing behing that curtain, neighbors, traffic noise etc).

While limiting is a must while recording to the PC I've been trying to A/B the limiting from the Composer pro with the virtual Limiter on the Patchmix that comes with the E-MU 0404 ... thus far the plug-in sounds more transparent, go figure! :confused:
 
Luc the Tinkerer said:
Like a twit I went and got me a ART Tube MP thinking it would improve the sound of vocals and was left feeling a bit underwhelmed.
Click to expand...

Well, I hope you didn't expect to be overwhelmed for that price. The Tube MP is, in my opinion, a much better sounding DI than going into a Berri board, and will occasionally be the better mic pre, when that kind of color is called for. I have much nicer pres, but I still find uses for my old toob MP.

Luc the Tinkerer said:
I mean, isn't clean and flat a good thing? :confused:
Click to expand...

Yes, and sometimes no. Lot's of commercially successful recordings have been made where distortion was deliberately introduced, cause that's what the song called for. And flat is flat out boring most of the time, which is why we don't generally record with precision reference mics.
If the music you're doing is calling for everything to be clean and flat all the time, you might want to look at getting an M-Audio DMP-3. It's a stereo pre that's very clean, very affordable, and performs well beyond it's price point.

Regards, RD
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top