Are there any generalities regarding attack and release times on comp/limiting hard rock?

cfg

cfg

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Are there any generalities regarding attack and release times on comp/limiting hard rock? There seems to four primary settings, fast attack/fast release, fast attack/slow release, slow attack, fast release, and slow attack/slow release. If one had to clutch at one of these categories for guitar driven hard rock, which one is most likely to net good results when mastering? And what other generalities might there be about attack and release times on hard rock?
 
What did you do when mixing? The very different needs of the vocals drums and bass should have been sorted in the mixing as there isnt as far as I’ve ever been aware a fix for this being wrong at the end stage?
 
As always, it depends on what the mix needs.

If you are trying to make the loud and soft parts not so loud and soft, slower attack and release will do that with a lower ratio.

If you are trying to get more volume, fast attack and release with a higher ratio.

What everyone calls "mastering" at this point normally involves a mastering limiter with super fast attack and release and a ratio of infinity to 1.
 
Thanks for the replies. So far I only have a guitar track, well overdriven, with moderate compression, and peaks of -8.5dB. I'll be putting bass and drums over it later. I'd be trying to achieve a punchy sound at the mastering stage.
 
Work the tracks first and get it to have the sound you want. Then blend it with the mastering for the final.

If you put your compressor on the master track, then your compressor has to work on everything. But if you put it on the track (they are plug ins so you can have more than one), then you can tweak the compressor for that instrument, be it a vocal, bass or drums. Drums will require different setting verses the bass, the two instruments are just different therefore should be treated as individuals.

Also, don't forget EQ, you can remove sound that is not important for that track and not just rely on the compressor. Great thing about EQ, you can remove sound you don't want and therefore you don't have to deal with it. Plus, it doesn't add noise to the summation of the mix. EQ is really a powerful tool.

I am not trying to be a "high nose" person, get it to sound good first, and use your EQ and compressor to treat each track, then when you are ready, use the master track to get it to blend and balance it out for the final AKA get the whole mix to work as a collective and total volume up.
 
DM60 said:
I am not trying to be a "high nose" person, get it to sound good first, and use your EQ and compressor to treat each track, then when you are ready, use the master track to get it to blend and balance it out for the final AKA get the whole mix to work as a collective and total volume up.
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This 100%. With modern DAW workflows, using track level plugins for getting the individual instruments 'right' gets us to the finish line a lot sooner and in better shape then trying to polish a turd later in the mastering stage. My mixes, for a few years now, sound exactly how I want them BEFORE the mastering stage. Mastering is just for super minor tweaking and matching to the overall volume of other tracks if its for an album.

[BTW - Hi Dave! :) ]
 
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Mastering is the very last thing you do. If you haven't recorded all the instruments and mixed it, it's too soon to worry about mastering.

Get the mix the way you want it, and use the mastering as polish at the very end.
 
O.k. Thanks for the replies. As a novice, I have mastered in the box with what I think are acceptable results, all things considered, mostly by tweaking variables (without really understanding them entirely) until I was satisfied with the sound. Still interested in understanding the process a bit better, and I'm going to post another question about mastering shortly.
 

"Are there any generalities regarding attack and release times on comp/limiting hard rock?"​


LIKE setting any compressor or limiter, it generally responds best when done in time with the music.
it's just a little bit of math to figure it out.
 
For me, the line is so blurred between mixing/mastering that I don't even think it's possible for me to master my own music unless I physically bounce down a 2track, if I'm doing work on the master channel it's always just part of the mixing process.
I couldn't bring myself to bouncing down a 2track to limit myself so vastly, just to try and get the best of what I can do with the 2track? Not when I have the project at hand.... but anyway

I start at 30 - 40ms and auto release then dial back the attack time to somewhere that sounds good while listening carefully to everything the compressor messes with - transient material first, then punch and then the swing, then mud and low end and congestion, glue, distance, width etc.etc.etc.. I never go faster than 10ms. I generally always leave the release on auto. 4:1 ratio is a fairly safe bet, adjust threshold for 1-2db of GR. I'm starting with the SSL Style compressor. So the vintage VCA in logic.
Me mindful of lowering the ratio to 2:1 with the threshold in place because it changes the whole characteristic of compression because it's directly tied with the compressors knee, the 2:1 ratio applies more gain reduction than 4:1 if you don't compensate with the threshold. I have been using compressors for years without knowing this, so while 4:1ratio sound aggressive, it's can actually be more transparant than 2:1. But either way, listen hard and a/b, maybe bounce a couple different versions. It should be easily apparant what one you prefer if listening back the next day.

Being a rock mix means nothing, have you got a massive kick? or just a clicky kick? is the vocal buried? or sitting on top and up front? Are drums loudest thing in the mix or tucked back? All this stuff matters to how master compression works so you just need to only add it on the master, and do the settings above and see if you like it, if not, leave the compressor on perhaps and mix into gently. If your compressor is swinging too much because of a massive kick, or only triggering when the kick hits, then you can tell the compressor to ignore it by sidechain HPF which is common.

I use mainly for swing, or if I want to have a slightly louder vocal or lead instrument, the compressor pushes it back down a little (along with all the backing stuff) but it does tuck it back a bit leaving a clearer vocal/lead instrument without it feeling like it's too loud but the compressor can't really do any heavy lifting or the whole track will sound weird. (Maybe that's what you want and your arrangement is designed around it though? I don't know).

if you're slapping it on at the end though, when you do anymore than 1-2db's or GR then your whole balance can come apart, reverbs may suddenly become overbearing, the rhythms might start swallowing the vocal

Read the soundonsound article on master buss compression, good advice in there
 
Oh yeah, you're not hitting a loud mix because of master buss compression or limiting. the mix needs to be really good and transients need to be heavily pushed up into saturation to extend the duration of transients while lowering them for easy punch at lower volume so you already have a flat(ish) higher lufs mix to start with, then the master bus compressor can get you another free db, and the limiter another free db, but as I said above. I think master buss compression isn't used for loudness, more so for glue/energy/groove, but yea... it does bring up the average level.
 
GONZO-X said:
and remember,

the harder you hit that limiter,

the more AWESOME your music will be.
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*fixed*
GONZO-X said:
LUFS is not a goal.
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Zero is..



"Simply" find the quietest place in the song and note how far down the signal is (in dB). Plug that number into the threshold of your limiter - and you're done.

if you see any dips in the waveform after that, zoom in, find the low spot and repeat.

When the waveform looks like one solid block of color, you have achieved a perfect modern mastering job."

"Low levels are for wimps."

"Dynamic range is way overrated."

"0 dBFS is not a limit, it's a goal."****************************************
-
 
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cfg said:
Are there any generalities regarding attack and release times on comp/limiting hard rock? There seems to four primary settings, fast attack/fast release, fast attack/slow release, slow attack, fast release, and slow attack/slow release. If one had to clutch at one of these categories for guitar driven hard rock, which one is most likely to net good results when mastering? And what other generalities might there be about attack and release times on hard rock?
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Just record everything with a very neutral eq and with as little processing as possible. I try to even record my vocal without any pre eq or compression if possible. It might sound odd, but if you can capture it right in the first place then the less processing you will need on mixdown. You learn to adjust your distance from the mike to control your dynamic, I know that sounds odd sorry.
 
Smithers XKR said:
Just record everything with a very neutral eq and with as little processing as possible. I try to even record my vocal without any pre eq or compression if possible. It might sound odd, but if you can capture it right in the first place then the less processing you will need on mixdown. You learn to adjust your distance from the mike to control your dynamic, I know that sounds odd sorry.
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The most important decisions made during the recording process are made before the "RECORD" button is ever pressed. Don't apologize for that.
 
Some of the pro stuff I've looked at was literally just clipped, absolutely flat topped.

There are also some things you can do in the mix with all-pass filters to make mastering loud easier.
 
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