Are Expensive Mic´s Expensive To Manufacture?

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Good point. But there are several mic companies now taking it upon themselves to inspect and reject the lemons among these Chinese mics. Particularly the smaller companies who have much to gain from a solid reputation.
 
I'm pretty sure that market forces set prices and have hardly anything to do with cost of manufacture.
See any mature software product where the cost is nill.
Note airplane trips (airlines lose money to keep market share).
Patent drugs (R&D is sometimes paid from NIH grants, not the drug companies, yet they are still expensive while they are exclusive).
 
asulger said:
I'm pretty sure that market forces set prices and have hardly anything to do with cost of manufacture.
See any mature software product where the cost is nill.
Note airplane trips (airlines lose money to keep market share).
Patent drugs (R&D is sometimes paid from NIH grants, not the drug companies, yet they are still expensive while they are exclusive).
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Market prices are used to set the pricepoint. From there, the company has to do a market study, feasability study, prototype phase and pilot run. All these steps are used to set the manuf. price vs. the sale price (price point). The markup is usually 2-3 times what the unit cost is. Some may run their margins closer, but that would be unusual.
 
wheelema said:
You are SO lucky (at least from where I sit) to be in Ireland. Of course, the grass is always greener on the other side.
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We've been talking on and off about joining my sister in boston :) - big concern is having to pay throught the roof for a house in a particular area to get your kid into a good school - whats with that? Plus people in boston seem to work too hard and I'm lazy :p

You did right thing getting out of electronics, life in electronics is one constant race against time - very stressful - unless you work for someone like neumann :p

wheelema said:
But even if you pay twenty to one for the good stuff, you're still looking at under a buck for the vast majority of components. I don't think it adds up fast enough to justify several thousand dollars for a mic.
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Yeah the cost certainly doen't add up to justify the high prices.

Unfotunately the many corners cut in saving money definitely add up with regard to noise, distortion, imbalance, frequency response. An extra dollar at manufacture could make a huge difference to a chinese mic. After all one of the biggest advancements in chinese mic making was applying scott dorseys mod at source :rolleyes:

They should do a Dell so you could go to the site and configure your own mic :cool:
 
paddyponchero said:
They should do a Dell so you could go to the site and configure your own mic :cool:
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Now that WOULD be cool!

As far as Boston and good schools... I can't speak to Boston, I don't live there, but I am sure it works much the same as here.

We used to live in town. The demographic where we lived was uniformly poor and the schools reflected this. It wasn't that the district discriminated, if anything they threw more resources at the school, but the kids just tore it apart. I don't know what it is with people... the only creature on earth that pisses and shits where it lives.

Even though we are still poor we now live in a much better demographic where the parents stay on top of their kids, and the schools reflect this. No graffiti, no vandalism. Much nicer all around.
 
wheelema said:
I don't think it adds up fast enough to justify several thousand dollars for a mic.
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I'll agree that 90% of the best and most useful mics cost between 500 and 1200 bucks, but having a few vocal mics that cost 2-3 thousand bucks is a sound investment for a pro studio.
 
Some hi end mics have hand picked parts... like diaphragms... meaning they may use about 1 out 3 and toss/sell the seconds... whereas with cheap budget mics, they don't care as much and cheap mic's are cheap to manufacture.
 
wheelema said:
Diversity is more important than price point. More power to you if you can afford that Geffell... wish I could... but better to have two dozen different mics that cost you three thousand all together than to have one mic that cost three thousand all by itself.
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Yes, diversity is important. Some of us would rather have fewer mics with a higher perceived quality or usefulness than more mics of lower perceived quality or usefulness.
 
Han said:
I wonder, why is a hand built Aston Martin DB9 so expensive?
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You know that if you damage a panel in an aston martin it has to be panel beaten specially to fit your car :D There are some advantages to owning a 'normal' car
 
Regarding the discussion of surface mount versus through-the-hole, I would just appreciate it if companies would stop mounting devices through metal vias.

There's nothing more annoying than having the solder stick to the inside of the hole as you're pulling a part through and having to have one person pulling on the blown capacitor while a second person holds the board and heats it. (It's scary heating a board instead of a lead...)

Not saying surface mount is all that much better, but please, if you're designing electornics, remember this rule: vias should either have metal tubes or leads running through them, but never both....
 
dgatwood said:
Regarding the discussion of surface mount versus through-the-hole, I would just appreciate it if companies would stop mounting devices through metal vias.

There's nothing more annoying than having the solder stick to the inside of the hole as you're pulling a part through and having to have one person pulling on the blown capacitor while a second person holds the board and heats it. (It's scary heating a board instead of a lead...)

Not saying surface mount is all that much better, but please, if you're designing electornics, remember this rule: vias should either have metal tubes or leads running through them, but never both....
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In the case of a board with more than two layers a lead is not an option for making connections - plating of the hole is required. Also even in the case of a two layer throughole board, a non plated hole does not provide a (reliable) path for the solder to traverse from the solderwave to the top of the board. Even if the board is to be soldered by hand, how do you imagine an operator would solder the top of the board under say a radial capacitor.

Also there is of course there is a perfectly valid reason or combining throughholes and vias both in terms of cost and board area.

PTH can be a real pain, large components can sink a lot of heat increasing the possibility of pulling the plating. If the leads are accessible, it helps to cut them to prevent heat sinking and pull the leads individually with a tweezers or pliers.

A lot of the pth boards I've worked with had enormous ground planes often several ground planes in different layers, the only solution was a weller heat gun or a solder pot.
 
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paddyponchero said:
PTH can be a real pain, large components can sink a lot of heat inceasing the possibiliy of pulling the palting. If the leads are accessibleit helps to cut them to prevent heat sinking and pull the leads individually with a tweezers or pliers.
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Well, in this case, the capacitor fell apart in the pliers, so we ended up pulling the leads out individually anyway.... This was a power filtering cap... something on the order of 5-10 uF, I forget exactly. But yeah, it was exceptionally hard for the first few minutes trying to keep both leads hot.

paddyponchero said:
A lot of the pth boards I've worked with had enormous ground planes often several ground planes in different layers, the oly solution was a weller heat gun or a solder pot.
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Yup. That pretty much describes this board. Basically the via had to be heated for the leads to fit at all, including reinserting the leads the first time. (After putting one in backwards and smoking it, the second replacement was slightly easier, strangely enough.)

Happily, that hardware has been in use for a couple of years since then with no problems, but if I had any idea how many hours it was going to take to replace a simple capacitor on that thing, I'd have probably thrown up my hands and bought a new one. I replaced the power connector on a PowerBook faster than that. Several -hours- faster.... *sigh*
 
dgatwood said:
Well, in this case, the capacitor fell apart in the pliers, so we ended up pulling the leads out individually anyway.... This was a power filtering cap... something on the order of 5-10 uF, I forget exactly. But yeah, it was exceptionally hard for the first few minutes trying to keep both leads hot.



Yup. That pretty much describes this board. Basically the via had to be heated for the leads to fit at all, including reinserting the leads the first time. (After putting one in backwards and smoking it, the second replacement was slightly easier, strangely enough.)

Happily, that hardware has been in use for a couple of years since then with no problems, but if I had any idea how many hours it was going to take to replace a simple capacitor on that thing, I'd have probably thrown up my hands and bought a new one. I replaced the power connector on a PowerBook faster than that. Several -hours- faster.... *sigh*
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Heh done a few of those powerbook connectors too ..

With regard to soldering - it always helps to have a metcal with a 20mm chisel tip handy :) If you do a lot of sodering pick up a metcal for yerself. I got mine for free and all it needed was a bit of contact cleaner :D
 
thread - good stuff.

I'm starting to pay just a little bit more for mics and I hear a difference. Going from $50 to $200 seems to be a good start. Someday I'll get up to $500 to $900 but I think it is good to start cheap then have something to compare the better stuff. I know for sure that if I didn't start w/ tape recorder mics and sm57 and cheap condensors, I wouldn't know if my mxl 960 was any good. And even that is pretty low cost. So I expect to hear something when I eventually get or rent the next level.
 
Value versus Cost

This is a general "pricing" response.

Setting prices can be very tricky business (see Professional Pricing Society ) but the overriding goal in any capitalist situation is increase the spread between production costs and purchase price. That said, in an open market, the market determines the value by voting with their money. The brilliant thing now is that vastly disperse communities, like everyone who's reading this right now, come together to express opinions on that merits of different products, which influences buying decisions.

So, if I can figure out how to make a microphone for $1 that performs as well as those priced at $1,000 then I'm going to charge $1,000 for my microphone and profit from my brilliance. I'm not going sell it for only $5 because then why bother and plus at that price no one would believe it worked as well as the $1,000 models. (If only I were so brilliant.)

My advice, there's always some cost with making the basic "thing" (guitar, microphone, camera, whatever). Once you pass that hurdle, a little more money can buy a lot more value until you reach the point of diminishing returns. So, if you're on a budget, don't buy the cheapest thing. Spend a little bit more to get what you really want because you're buying a lot more value and you'll be a lot happier with your purchase - not fighting with a cheap product that doesn't work well and makes you wish you'd spent a bit more.
 
jhughs said:
... until you reach the point of diminishing returns. So, if you're on a budget, don't buy the cheapest thing...
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And likewise, don't buy the most expensive. Determining that point of diminishing returns, if there is one, is the crux, and will get the best "bang for the buck." Whether that's what suits your needs, though, is another matter. Sometimes the cheapest thing is perfectly adequate, and sometimes even the most expensive still isn't good enough.
 
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