Applying an analog mixer for my computer base music creation

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kenoir

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I have been a bit tied up in thinking how can I possibly send my audio signal from my computer programs into the mixer for mixing then back into my computer's hard drive for mixing.

In my acknowledgement, I would need,

1 - a sound card with sufficient I/O, since I would have a diversity of individual tracks of instrumental sound from my computer based sequencing program (e.g. cubase)

2 - a mixer with at least as much tracks as the sound card in order to fully utilise the amount of output from my sound card.

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PROBLEMS:

1 - Would it be economically efficient and to buy a mixer that at least as much tracks as the sound card rather than buying buying something like EMU 1820m?

2 - Will it be low in productivity for those multitrack mixer with usb or firewire port to send signals for recording? Since some of the audio interface said they could perform the best only when u run 2 tracks simutaneously. That means it will be inefficient to mix a 4 tracks of 4 piece drum set out from the computer program on the mixer?

3 - Am I worrying too much because I don't have expirience in mixing? (I guess it is necessary to mix a few tracks at once right?

4 - Any suggestion of set up will do this job? Or my choice are limited to buy a sound card with many input and output then get a analog mixer and send it back (no cutting corners?)

Hope someone could kindly correct on my misconception and queries!

Thanks

Kenoir
 
I wish I could get one. But the price is not so favorable for me at the moment. Also, I would rather looks for some second hand just to keep the cost down, therefore if I could get a used second hand mixer and a new audio card, that will be good.

And I see one problem of those m audio device u showed me, they wouldn't have any EQ knobs on board, and requires you to go through some steps before u can tweak the eq.

But thanks for replying, may be I'm just asking odd questions.

Thanks
 
you could get amixer with channel I/O Inderts and a firepod, That might do the trick, though Im not 100% sure. I saw a used firepod for about $300 on e-bay.

-C$
 
I assume the reason would be in using outboard effects via inserts and the aux. busses?
 
Creamy apple:

right, that's what I wanna do, but the new generation mixer with USB or FIREWIRE have problems of simulataneouly feeding more than 2 tracks and can result in a decreased processing speed on the computer, right?

Kenoir
 
I'm not an expert on any of this stuff so this might be totally off the wall but my understanding of the use of an outboard mixer is as such:

If you use an analog mixer and plus the mic into the input and then run the mixer out into the input of a firepod and use the firewire into the computer that you can't eq the signal after it goes into the computer. I think that a digital mixer allows you to edit the ed and effects and such after it has been input into the software program, yes?

I had thought about geting an ouboard analog mixer, and even bought aMackie 24 channel (which I am now selling) for this purpose, but went against it because I didn't think I had the necessary tools to make it work worth a darn.
 
MCreel said:
I'm not an expert on any of this stuff so this might be totally off the wall but my understanding of the use of an outboard mixer is as such:

If you use an analog mixer and plus the mic into the input and then run the mixer out into the input of a firepod and use the firewire into the computer that you can't eq the signal after it goes into the computer. I think that a digital mixer allows you to edit the ed and effects and such after it has been input into the software program, yes?

I had thought about geting an ouboard analog mixer, and even bought aMackie 24 channel (which I am now selling) for this purpose, but went against it because I didn't think I had the necessary tools to make it work worth a darn.
Click to expand...

I havnt tried my method, but if you use the channel inserts to go into the firepod, you can set the channel inserts (send / return I/O)to be Post fader/eq and use the eq on the channel strip to eq the sound, or run an effects bus to your external rack.

I think that will work, but then it depends what mixer you get.

-C$
 
unless you have really nice outboard compressors, reverbs, mixers, etc. it is not worth sending it out of the computer. just mix in the box and be done with it. once you figure that out, and you realize the benefit of using really nice outboard equipment, then then go for it..
 
I think we're mixing two seperate things into the same question.

A control interface is a physical piece of hardware (in most cases resembles a mixer) but it only controls the functions (assignable) of your actual software.

A mixer with firewire/usb connection, you might need to go read a few manuals, in theory they sound pretty cool, but from what I've read, they aren't as problem solving as they make themselves out to be.

In using an Analog mixer with a PC setup, you can run the outs of your PC into the ins on your board, and from there do a number of things:

Mix down to a two track source. CD Burner, DAT, Tape Deck fully utilizing channel inserts and aux. busses.

Reroute the direct outs back into single tracks via inputs on your PC soundcard. The only downside to this is you need to make sure that your board's direct outs are post fader otherwise it's pointless as your effected tracks will not route from the pre fade direct out. If you are using a board with direct outs or Insert I/O that is prefader then this step is pointless as you are taking the same signal from your PC, transfering to analog, and then back to digital for basically the exact same track.

Personally, I use a board with direct outs to record my tracks into my PC. I then route the signals back out to the board to add effects via channel inserts and aux. busses. Then the main outs of the board for monitoring and the CD or Tape out of the board to a CD burner. I don't put the signal back in unless I transfer the burnt CD back into a .wav and tinker around with "mastering" (if you want to call it that) on the PC.
 
MCreel said:
If you use an analog mixer and plus the mic into the input and then run the mixer out into the input of a firepod and use the firewire into the computer that you can't eq the signal after it goes into the computer. I think that a digital mixer allows you to edit the ed and effects and such after it has been input into the software program, yes?
Click to expand...

I think analogue mixer do fine for me because I need to send the signal out "just before" I mix all tracks together into a stereo.

For me I will not deal too much about eq-ing before mixing, but I will still get close to it and be aware when choosing synthesized or sampled sounds. One thing for the digital mixer like the m audio one on top is u don't get to adjust stuff like eq or send until u press a set of buttons and do a set of mouse clicks, just like the portable hardisk recorders.

I imagined that, behringer made the BCR and BCF, they could also do the same thing to their usb mixing desk (if they use usb2.0 or firewire), so the desk can be a controller during and after recording. That will be a killer :cool: .

Kenoir
 
Creamyapples1 said:
In using an Analog mixer with a PC setup, you can run the outs of your PC into the ins on your board, and from there do a number of things:

Mix down to a two track source. CD Burner, DAT, Tape Deck fully utilizing channel inserts and aux. busses.

Reroute the direct outs back into single tracks via inputs on your PC soundcard. The only downside to this is you need to make sure that your board's direct outs are post fader otherwise it's pointless as your effected tracks will not route from the pre fade direct out. If you are using a board with direct outs or Insert I/O that is prefader then this step is pointless as you are taking the same signal from your PC, transfering to analog, and then back to digital for basically the exact same track.
Click to expand...

Yup... thats essentially what I thought when I mentioned the firepod. Now I know some one who has done it that way :)

-C$
 
Ya Creamy apples:

I gues I mistakenly thought the mixer's purpose is to get chance to "touch" the real eq knob to increase efficiency during mixing back to the computer's hard drive - which I'm trying to do a controller's job by the knobs on the mixing desk.

I got your meaning now, you mean that we should send the audio signal to a recorder after the sound came out from the computer for a physical final product instead of feeding back to the computer's digital domain.

I think that way because I always feel that my computer's hardrive is a recorder. (may be it's foolish to think like that)
 
But one more question:

Do anyone think any brand's mixing desk with USB or Firewire capable of handling a more than 2 tracks during recording?

thanks!
 
kenoir said:
But one more question:

Do anyone think any brand's mixing desk with USB or Firewire capable of handling a more than 2 tracks during recording?

thanks!
Click to expand...

Read up on the Alesis Firewire boards. I'm talking the entire manual. I don't recall if they actually send each channel seperatly or if it's the same BS as the USB where it sends the main and tape outs, or something stupidly similar.

The problem with the firewire boards would be, I don't know that you can use them in a bi-directional sense. Such as send the signals from your PC tracks into the board and then back into the PC, keeping them all seperate still. At the same time. Even more, I don't know that using inserts or Aux. Busses will effect that signal even if it will accomodate the bi-directional application.
 
Creamyapples1 said:
I think we're mixing two seperate things into the same question.

A control interface is a physical piece of hardware (in most cases resembles a mixer) but it only controls the functions (assignable) of your actual software.

A mixer with firewire/usb connection, you might need to go read a few manuals, in theory they sound pretty cool, but from what I've read, they aren't as problem solving as they make themselves out to be.

In using an Analog mixer with a PC setup, you can run the outs of your PC into the ins on your board, and from there do a number of things:

Mix down to a two track source. CD Burner, DAT, Tape Deck fully utilizing channel inserts and aux. busses.

Reroute the direct outs back into single tracks via inputs on your PC soundcard. The only downside to this is you need to make sure that your board's direct outs are post fader otherwise it's pointless as your effected tracks will not route from the pre fade direct out. If you are using a board with direct outs or Insert I/O that is prefader then this step is pointless as you are taking the same signal from your PC, transfering to analog, and then back to digital for basically the exact same track.

Personally, I use a board with direct outs to record my tracks into my PC. I then route the signals back out to the board to add effects via channel inserts and aux. busses. Then the main outs of the board for monitoring and the CD or Tape out of the board to a CD burner. I don't put the signal back in unless I transfer the burnt CD back into a .wav and tinker around with "mastering" (if you want to call it that) on the PC.
Click to expand...

The control interface controls the software (IE controls the interactive faders, gain, eq, and such) sot hat you can use your hands and don't have to use the mouse...sort of like mixing a live band, but are you saying it doesn't house the inputs and all that also?

I'm going to bother asking about routing inputs and outputs yet as I'm not going to mess with putting my mixer in the chain....when I do live apps that will be a different story as those are going into the board to begin with an dI'm also not needing to monitor the output. I'm just recording it. I can go back and effectualize the tracks later in the software.
 
MCreel said:
The control interface controls the software (IE controls the interactive faders, gain, eq, and such) sot hat you can use your hands and don't have to use the mouse...sort of like mixing a live band, but are you saying it doesn't house the inputs and all that also?
Click to expand...

The one I listed above does infact have mic preamps so if you WANTED to use it as a board live and record the set you could, but you would be kinf of limited on the # of chanels, unless you were to daisychain them

-C$
 
There you have it, not all of them, but some do infact include the I/O. After you drop the 1k+ on it, send some my way too pls. :D
 
Oh I'm not buying one. I'm satisfied for now with that extra cash and using the software package. I would however gladly send you the change of difference between the last $1 bill I present and the number to the right of the decimal.

Whats your address?
 
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