Applying a "Master Limiter"

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Wtf is a PRS
Firstly, I'd like to state that i am very much a less is more kind of guy, mainly out of ignorance but also due to the fact i like to make sure that my input signals are as pristine as they can be to cut down on altering stuff too much when reaching the mixing phase. And, also due to some of the stuff i have heard my friends doing. Applying to many bells and whistles kind of effects to compensate for their shittly recorded input or just becasue they have the fanciest of Plug-ins. I think sometime pulg-ins are looked at as a bandaid or cop out for getting lazy in the set-up.

That said i am a complete newb when it comes to that final mixdown and what things do what. So...

How does one properly apply a master limiter.

I currently have the Kjaerhus Master Limiter. I plopped it into one of my songs the other day and it just made everything more clear? IS this doing anything else other then making it louder? What is it doing? Is it enhancing some of the frequency's that are lagging in the mix or....

typically i don't really add anything onto the master channel for final output other then some compression and EQ. But when i threw this Master Limiter thing on and set the dial to -2.5 -3.0 range it really added some oomph and i had this feeling wash over me like "This kinda makes it sound like i know what i am doing"

Setting it to -12.0 made it sound like a dance remix and it was really gross. Like i could kind of hear everything pretty well, but it sounded.... bad?!

But to my dismay i very often mistake a louder sound for a better sound. Which is not the case as i have been told and pointed out. So before i get to excited i should know what exactly it is that this thing is doing to my song.

Thanks.
 
What a limiter does is dependant on the particular limiter, but also on the mix.

Say you have a mix where all the peaks are in the lower frequency range, then the limiter will reduce those low-freq peaks and your mix will appear to be brighter because your understated highs are now comparable to the lows in amplitude.


Same works in reverse. If your peaks are all in the high end then a limiter will reduce them and appear to beef up the mix (or make it dull)

I'm no expert, but when i do use a limiter, I usually reduce the threshold until just the stray peaks are being tamed, then I'll set the output ceiling clear of zero for safety; Maybe -0.5?

Over the last year or longer I've just let go of the idea of getting a loud final wav.
To my surprise though, it's become less of a problem since i stopped worrying about it.

Just mix low and mix well, the rest will fall into place.
That's not to say my mixes are anywhere near perfect, but I've been much happier with the outcome lately.

EDIT
Sorry to write you a book, but do a bounce with your limiter on and a bounce without it.
Import the two and turn down the limited one until they match in volume.

Now A/B the two and see if the limited one still sounds brighter.
It might do, but sometimes it's just an illusion; Like you say, louder = better! ;)
 
Based on where you set that dial, (or threshold,) the limiter chops off all peaks at that point creating empty headroom above the peaks. Unlike compression, a limiter does not allow any signal to go above the threshold. Then before the song leaves the limiter, it can be boosted to make use of that headroom and fill up the void so-to-speak. This part is called "Make-up Gain" or "Output Gain." Alternatively, some limiters allow the user to simply choose a dB level to use as a target while increasing volume. As long as your output target is above the threshold, it will increase volume until it reaches that point. This is why the song sounds louder after the limiter.
 
I have very little to add here, but I do have three things to say -

1. During mixing, I only recommend actually making active use of limiters on your submix busses (smash drums together, smash guitars together, smash vocals, smash smashed guitars into smashed vocals, etc), and even then, use them in parallel at least to some extent so you still have some transients coming out of each bus (or route some signal to non-smashed busses... many ways to skin that cat). Many people have strong opinions about... whatever they feel like ranting about on this topic, but whatever - I have no interest in theoretical music mixing morals and shit. If you want a realistic answer as to what limiters are really used for during mixing - This is done damn near all the time in modern commercial mixes.

2. During mixing, it is not at all uncommon to put a brickwall across the main bus to prevent clipping, but ideally your mix won't need it by the end, or will only be making very light use of it. If you do have one on there, make you sure to cut it off at at least -0.5 or so so you don't have intersample clipping going on. Actually manipulating an entire mix should be left to a mastering engineer (or if you want to do it yourself, maybe ask in the mastering forum instead of the mixing one?).

3. "Mastering limiters" do things besides just limiting. Assuming you're mastering to CD, they also truncate to 16 bits and add dither noise. For this reason they should only really be used when you're ready to make that step (ie: when actually mastering to CD). Don't send a mix that's been truncated to 16 bits off to a masteringhouse.
 
TyphoidHippo said:
I During mixing, it is not at all uncommon to put a brickwall across the main bus to prevent clipping, but ideally your mix won't need it by the end
Click to expand...

Just to emphasize that one. During mixing, you shouldn't be going anywhere near needing a limiter in case of clipping. If your mix is peaking that high, you're mixing about 6db to 12db too hot.
 
All some really interesting stuff here. A little more then i bargained for truthfully.

Steenamaroo said:
I'm no expert, but when i do use a limiter, I usually reduce the threshold until just the stray peaks are being tamed, then I'll set the output ceiling clear of zero for safety; Maybe -0.5?
Click to expand...

Funny you mentioned this. I did kind of sit and watch the little "LED" lights light up to see what it was doing and i found if i set it to just catch my stray peaks thats almost when it sounded best.

I will try playing with it in some other aspects other then the master bus. I think it would be great on a bass track. I get some pretty wild high peaking resonations sometimes, they are for the most part inaudible to my ear but if i can tame them a bit that would be awesome.
 
Is this a common practice? Putting a limiter on the master bus, I mean. Or is this more of a stop-gap measure to avoid clipping the final mix?
 
5stringer said:
Is this a common practice? Putting a limiter on the master bus, I mean. Or is this more of a stop-gap measure to avoid clipping the final mix?
Click to expand...

Gota go with what Rami said.
To clarify, I only find myself doing this if I'm trying to bounce a final,'mastered' song.
 
Just to clarify my post. I'm sure most people got what I was saying, but just in case some don't. I'm not against using a Master limiter. I do my own Smashtering myself. But I only put it on the 2-track master of the finished mix, which is peaking nowhere remotely near clipping. If someone's putting a master limiter on while they mix for the sole reason of avoiding clipping, you're mixng extremely way too hot.

EDIT> Steen pretty much said the same thing while I was typing. :)
 
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