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frequency_
New member
Thanks evryone, i ve read the things you wrote and did some research myself, so think i ll build a pc, the price will be same as a mac but it will be faster (theoriticaly...)
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scrouch
New member
Building a PC will be cheaper than getting a Mac. I've recorded on both and have had fewer issues on the Mac, and any issues were easier to fix, but if it's well setup both should work fine. If it's just for recording it won't make much difference.
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brzilian
New member
frequency_ said:
Your loss...
dgatwood
is out. Leave a message.
frequency_ said:
Considering that the Mac Pro uses the fastest x86 CPUs currently available, it won't be faster. Cheaper, maybe, but not by much. For the 3 GHz quad (not the eight-way) configuration, for example, my approximation of the price to build it comes out to:
$1800 two CPUs ($900 apiece)
$400 logic board (the cheapest dual Socket-T board I could find in stock)
$80 HD (250GB)
$50 keyboard & mouse (approx.)
$160 2x512MB DDR2-667 RAM
$40 bluetooth adapter,
$70 802.11-draft-n adapter (PCI)
$275 Power supply (1300W)
$80 GeForce 7300GT
$125 Windows Vista Home Premium OEM (you'll need an OS)
You're at $3080 and you don't have a case yet. For a case that isn't a complete piece of crap (the $20-30 cases are awful), add another $70-200. You also have no warranty.
By contrast, the Mac Pro with equivalent config (with Mac OS X instead of Vista) is $3300. Yes, you can cut out some stuff you don't need and save money, but don't believe for one minute that you pay some huge "tax" for a Mac. Apple's memory/HD upgrade prices notwithstanding, you'll generally spend within 10% of the base configuration price to build equivalent hardware yourself and you end up with something that has no warranty, no integration testing, and Windows (or Linux if you'd prefer).
BTW, I picked the four-way because you can't even build the 8-way version yourself. AFAIK, the 3 GHz QX6700 chip is a special version of the part made for Apple. Dell only offers "factory overclocked" models at that speed, and you can't buy 3 GHz QX6700 parts retail. The fastest parts you can buy retail are only 2.66 GHz.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Many of the gearsluts will consider this post blastphemous, but I consider it being honest...
There's no need to pay three grand for a prosumer DAW platform these days, Mac or PC. For half that price or less you can get more than enough horsepower and data pipe to run 48 tracks with plugs without even breaking a sweat.
Until 3 years ago I was doing 24 tracks of 24-bit session audio and high-res video on a PIII/450 with 384MB of RAM for goodness sake. And other than slow final MPEG rendering times for long-format high-res video, I had no real performance issues whatsoever.
Save your money for a decent analog signal path.
G.
There's no need to pay three grand for a prosumer DAW platform these days, Mac or PC. For half that price or less you can get more than enough horsepower and data pipe to run 48 tracks with plugs without even breaking a sweat.
Until 3 years ago I was doing 24 tracks of 24-bit session audio and high-res video on a PIII/450 with 384MB of RAM for goodness sake. And other than slow final MPEG rendering times for long-format high-res video, I had no real performance issues whatsoever.
Save your money for a decent analog signal path.
G.
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boingoman
New member
dgatwood said:
I bet you can get that system for less, buying from Apple you pay full list. And don't have them upgrade memory or drives for sure. Just buy them aftermarket and ask a PC person to install them for you.
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boingoman
New member
SouthSIDE Glen said:
WORD!!!...........
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
That's called "legacy compatability" and it has nothing to do with IDing simialr architectures.timthetortoise said:
The IBM PC/XT-370 was an 8086 PC that (with the addition of a co-processor card) ran native IBM System 370 *mainframe* software, yet it's architecture was about as similar to the System 370 as the P4 is to a Cray XM-P. Ability to run native software is irrelevant to the definition of CPU architecture.
G.
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Tekker
New member
That is very cool. What kind of tweaks did you do?timthetortoise said:
Once I have some free time, I plan on setting up a separate partition that I'm going to use strickly for audio and I would love to be able to strip XP down and have the fastest running system possible.
If you wouldn't mind, could you give a list of the things you had nLite do? What kinds of things are ok to remove and what should be left alone?
Thanks,
-tkr
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wreckd504
New member
I don't think the pc vs mac gets anybody anywhere. I like pcs, cos i enjoy upgrading one or two parts of my computer or pulling bits out of it. I don't think one is better, but as i have a pc for music, a pc for games and internet it was cheaper to customise them exactly for my needs than buy a 2 macs.
In response to dgatwood, i don't know what on earth you need two $900 cpus and a $400 mobo for, that is overkill to me. I run a p4 2.8ghz (not duo or c2duo) and an asus p5p mobo (ulta bare bone cheapy) with 2 400gb hdds and 1 80gb raptor as my primary. No bluetooth (why do i need that for audio recording?) either. $50 for a keyboard and mouse? I got mine for 10 bucks a piece. I am nitpicking, i just think you exaggerated your figures to make your point.
My system has been running perfect for just on 2 years now. I did the registry tweaks and all the rest, and its never been near the internet and has no virus scanner installed, which i think are major factors contributing to its smooth running. I don't know what currency you are quoting, and maybe parts are more expensive where you are, but in australia the cheapest computer supermarket is www.msy.com.au so going by those prices and decent computer is far cheaper than a mac.
http://www.tweakheadz.com/Mac_vs_Pc_DAWS.htm
^ Is a good read if you really want to go deeper in the never ending debate that is mac vs pc.
I really think its simple, work out what specs you need (check other peoples systems, what vsts/programs they run, and find out if they have any memory or speed issues)...after you get your specs you need go and get a computer supermarket price list and a calculator, and add up how much bang for your buck you get. Prices can be 25-40% if you go to the wrong computer shop btw.
To paraphrase what everyone else has said, if you don't like tweaking computers and getting inside your pc don't buy a pc, buy a mac, or you'll just end up paying someone else when you need to change something.
In response to dgatwood, i don't know what on earth you need two $900 cpus and a $400 mobo for, that is overkill to me. I run a p4 2.8ghz (not duo or c2duo) and an asus p5p mobo (ulta bare bone cheapy) with 2 400gb hdds and 1 80gb raptor as my primary. No bluetooth (why do i need that for audio recording?) either. $50 for a keyboard and mouse? I got mine for 10 bucks a piece. I am nitpicking, i just think you exaggerated your figures to make your point.
My system has been running perfect for just on 2 years now. I did the registry tweaks and all the rest, and its never been near the internet and has no virus scanner installed, which i think are major factors contributing to its smooth running. I don't know what currency you are quoting, and maybe parts are more expensive where you are, but in australia the cheapest computer supermarket is www.msy.com.au so going by those prices and decent computer is far cheaper than a mac.
http://www.tweakheadz.com/Mac_vs_Pc_DAWS.htm
^ Is a good read if you really want to go deeper in the never ending debate that is mac vs pc.
I really think its simple, work out what specs you need (check other peoples systems, what vsts/programs they run, and find out if they have any memory or speed issues)...after you get your specs you need go and get a computer supermarket price list and a calculator, and add up how much bang for your buck you get. Prices can be 25-40% if you go to the wrong computer shop btw.
To paraphrase what everyone else has said, if you don't like tweaking computers and getting inside your pc don't buy a pc, buy a mac, or you'll just end up paying someone else when you need to change something.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
All I can say is that I have a new intel Mac Pro tower and it is a phenomenal computer. Besides the fact that it is screaming fast, it is beautifully and thoughtfully designed. Swapping internal hard drives, PCIe boards, memory upgrades, is super easy and fast. The four internal hard drive slots each have their own built in sled, so all you do is screw the drive into the sled and slide it back into the computer.
Most improtantly for music/audio types, the intel Macs are *whisper* quiet. I have mine out in the open in my studio and the sound of the hard drive accessing is louder than the fans. It's basically just a tiny bit louder than my laptop. Amazingly quiet.
As far as compatibility, adding peripherals is so troublefree. Just hook them up and go. There's some poor soul in this soundcards forum that is trying to get his Emu0202 working with his PC and it's just sad the trouble he's having.
There's something to be said for having the OS and hardware designed by the same company. It works together *really* well.
Most improtantly for music/audio types, the intel Macs are *whisper* quiet. I have mine out in the open in my studio and the sound of the hard drive accessing is louder than the fans. It's basically just a tiny bit louder than my laptop. Amazingly quiet.
As far as compatibility, adding peripherals is so troublefree. Just hook them up and go. There's some poor soul in this soundcards forum that is trying to get his Emu0202 working with his PC and it's just sad the trouble he's having.
There's something to be said for having the OS and hardware designed by the same company. It works together *really* well.
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brzilian
New member
wreckd504 said:
Old article with outdated info. It was written before the Intel Macs were released...
I'd take anything they say about price with a grain of salt.
dgatwood
is out. Leave a message.
wreckd504 said:
You completely missed the point of my post. I NEVER claimed that you couldn't get a usable PC for recording that was cheaper than the Mac Pro. Heck, the Mac Mini at $599 is a usable recording PC for most folks. My whole point was that you cannot build a system that is as fast as the Mac Pro and has equivalent features for significantly less money.
As for the keyboard and mouse, because there is such a wide range of preferences in mice and keyboards, the keyboard/mouse price was just a rough ballpark based on the last keyboard and trackball I bought ($25 or so for the cheapest USB keyboard at Fry's), and about that much for the cheapest trackball. All of the other prices, however, were the result of searches for equivalent components via Froogle.
Oh, yeah, and I forgot to add the cost of new fans to make the "cheap" PC quiet enough to use.
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wreckd504
New member
brzillian it still has valid points, and instead of going round and round in an never ending debate, it does get the core of some major points in the issue.
Fair enough dgatwood, one thing i haven't spent any time researching but i'd like to, is comparative cost of mac vs pc with exact specs ie when is a pc cheaper vs a mac. A high end pc vs high end mac is one thing, but what about an above average pc that is more than adequate for recording.
In Australian dollars a high quality, almost top of the range pc costs;
$302 cpu = intel c2duo e6600
$189 mobo = Asus p5b-e
$146 ram = 2x1g Corsair DDR2 667 Ram
$145 hdd = Seagate SATA 400g for recording
$61 hdd = Seagate SATA 80g for OS
$192 Vid = 256mb 8600GT MSI PCIeVideo card
$43 dvd = lite on dvd/cd burner
$259 lcd = Samsung 940BW-4ms LCD WS dvi
$225 Case = Antec p150 Case and psu
$185 OS = OEM Windows Xp Pro
$65 Fan = Gigabyte PCU22-VG silent cooler cpu fan
$35 KB+MS = Logitech cordless keyboard and mouse
Optional
$70 for someone to put the whole thing together.
$1847 AUD + 70 for constuction if you need it
Also, all the parts have their own individual warrantys.
In terms of cpu i see no point at buying at the top of the price curve. E6700 is $422 and a core 2 quad q6600 is $702. That would totally blow out the cost.
I guess as a comparison to mac, how would a mac be with the exact same specs? Its just hard to have the "price" debate using generalised prices. Also i imagine prices vary depending what country you're in aswell.
NB: Prices derived from www.msy.com.au which is AFAIK the cheapest wholesale computer part seller in sydney.
Fair enough dgatwood, one thing i haven't spent any time researching but i'd like to, is comparative cost of mac vs pc with exact specs ie when is a pc cheaper vs a mac. A high end pc vs high end mac is one thing, but what about an above average pc that is more than adequate for recording.
In Australian dollars a high quality, almost top of the range pc costs;
$302 cpu = intel c2duo e6600
$189 mobo = Asus p5b-e
$146 ram = 2x1g Corsair DDR2 667 Ram
$145 hdd = Seagate SATA 400g for recording
$61 hdd = Seagate SATA 80g for OS
$192 Vid = 256mb 8600GT MSI PCIeVideo card
$43 dvd = lite on dvd/cd burner
$259 lcd = Samsung 940BW-4ms LCD WS dvi
$225 Case = Antec p150 Case and psu
$185 OS = OEM Windows Xp Pro
$65 Fan = Gigabyte PCU22-VG silent cooler cpu fan
$35 KB+MS = Logitech cordless keyboard and mouse
Optional
$70 for someone to put the whole thing together.
$1847 AUD + 70 for constuction if you need it
Also, all the parts have their own individual warrantys.
In terms of cpu i see no point at buying at the top of the price curve. E6700 is $422 and a core 2 quad q6600 is $702. That would totally blow out the cost.
I guess as a comparison to mac, how would a mac be with the exact same specs? Its just hard to have the "price" debate using generalised prices. Also i imagine prices vary depending what country you're in aswell.
NB: Prices derived from www.msy.com.au which is AFAIK the cheapest wholesale computer part seller in sydney.
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dgatwood
is out. Leave a message.
wreckd504 said:
There are no Macs with those specs. The reason any comparison normally starts from a Mac model and building an equivalent PC is that Apple generally only builds midrange to high-end computers, and thus there are a lot more possible PC configurations than Mac configurations.
Comparison problems with your configuration:
- All current Mac towers have two dual-core CPUs, so comparison to a single-CPU machine is problematic.
- You can't get a 2.4 GHz CPU in any Mac. The iMac only goes up to 2.33 GHz, and the Mac Pro only goes down to dual 2.0 GHz (four cores total).
- There are no Macs with MSI graphics cards; the iMacs use an ATI GPU, and the towers use NVidia or ATI cards.
- You can't get a 400 GB drive or an 80 GB drive. Choices are generally 250 GB and 500 GB.
- You can't get a 19" flat panel. The iMac has a built-in flat panel, and is available in 17", 20", and 24".
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wreckd504
New member
Ok, i can see why comparisons are difficult, but makes me think how limiting hardware selection is in macs, i realise this most probably has to do with their increasing reliability.
On a related note;
What programs/plugins do you use that need that level of processing power and wouldn't run on a single core 2 duo cpu?
On a related note;
What programs/plugins do you use that need that level of processing power and wouldn't run on a single core 2 duo cpu?
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charger
New member
Muaahahahahahaha!dgatwood said:I recently talked to one of my friends who knows an Intel engineer. He said that Apple worked closely with Intel to add various features into the chipsets that they're using. Those features can improve the efficiency of operating systems that take advantage of them. The Intel guy reportedly said that they "learned a lot" from the Apple folks.
While everybody gets any improvements that Apple requests, I have reason to believe that Intel chipsets have improved as a result of Apple's involvement with them. Of course, that comes as no surprise to me, since Apple is one of only a few companies that made custom chipsets (1984) before Intel did (1992).
Sorry. Are you implying that Intel does not work closely with Microsoft as well, to fine tune their architecture to serve Windows? Intel knows that 90%+ of its chips and chipsets run Windows.
dgatwood
is out. Leave a message.
charger said:
No, I'm not implying that at all. If you want to read someting about Microsoft into that, though....