AP2496 and +4 vs -10 input

B

Burden of Proof

New member
I posted a while ago as I was getting my new mixer (yamaha MG 16/4) set up, and now I have a pretty good monitoring chain set up, all things considered... but I'm still having a problem: The outputs on my mixer are at the +4dB (professional) level, and the soundcard only seems to want the -10dB (line, or consumer?) level... as a result, everything comes into the soundcard WAY too loud and the card provides some (a lot of) nice input clipping regardles of card volume levels. Someone else posted that there was a switch for which level of input the card would take, but I have found no such thing... is there an easy solution to this that I'm just not finding in my manuals, or is it just 'tough luck, bro - find another way'? I've just been turning the channel levels on the mixer WAY down, but isn't this bad for S/N ratio?

Also, as a potential remedy (and because I WANT it) I'm looking to get an interface with more inputs and run the inserts from the mixer to the inputs on the interface... will I have this same problem * 8 with a 1010lt or a Firepod or whatever interface I can afford in a couple months (read as: after a decent christmas bonus at work)?

Anyone encountered this or know of a proper solution?

thanx
 
On the Delta Control Panel, one of the tabs has got switches to select +4/10 input levels.

You could also try using the Rec Out jacks on the mixer, as these are -10
 
thanks bulls hit

you were the one who mentioned this in the first place - sorry I forgot your name. I did not see this switch in my m-audio control panel... can you tell me exactly where it is (or maybe doesn't apply to the 2496, or all versions of the 2496)? Unfortunately, since I don't have monitors or a poweramp yet, I have to use the recording outputs for my computer speakers for monitor speakers... it's the only way I've found to have independant control over input/output monitoring through both headphones and speakers in my severely limited arrangement. Using the group sends is the only way to get sound into my computer that is not reflected through the C-R outputs (headphones, for monitoring)... here's the setup:

mics/instruments->mixer(all inputs set to group send)->group 1/2 out to computer->computer return into 15/16 on mixer(set to standard stereo)->C-R outs now play 'computerized' output and not original group output

if I take the 'recording' out to the computer, it records its own output (since that's my monitoring channel, and it's getting it's own sound on chan 15/16)

I suppose I could fix this with a simple hifi amp, since I'm just monitoring the computer's output anyway, and use that amp for both speakers and headphones - but I'll want the setup running this way once I have a good monitoring setup (a decent poweramp and some passive speakers) so I'd like to get it set up right.

whew, long winded, I know - guess the question comes down to: 'where exactly is this -10/+4 switch in the m-audio control panel?'

or is my config all ass and there's a better way? my way is pretty much how it says to do it in the yamaha manual...

anyway, thanks for the help
 
OK I have the delta 44, not the 2496, but on my Control Panel the first tab is Monitor Mixer, the 2nd is Patchbay/Router and the third is ?Hardware something?. Anyway it's on this tab - there's a section called Input levels where I can select +4, consumer or -10.

If you don't have that, then there may be an alternative way to wire up your mixer.
Move the 2496 outputs from channels 15/16 to the 2TR In jacks. There's a bunch of buttons in the master section that control the signal going to C-R Out & Phones. Push the ones that let only the 2TR- In go to C-R Out, and also deselect the 2 ST button so the 2 TR signal doesn't get on the Stereo bus.

Route your input channels to the Stereo bus instead of Group 1-2. This will also send the signal to the Rec Out jacks. Now hook up the Rec Outs to the 2496 inputs & you should be good to go.

Warning: I'm not at home right now, so take all this with a grain of salt
 
Bulls Hit said:
OK I have the delta 44, not the 2496, but on my Control Panel the first tab is Monitor Mixer, the 2nd is Patchbay/Router and the third is ?Hardware something?. Anyway it's on this tab - there's a section called Input levels where I can select +4, consumer or -10.
Click to expand...

The 24/96 control panel is the same as bulls hit
 
so I'm delusional...

Okay, so in the control panel, under Hardware, there's a little section that says something to the effect of "Variable Level Control" or "Adjustable Level Control" or something under which there's a little section with radio buttons for "Output Level" to switch between "Consumer" and "-10db" - but nothing at all about "Input Level". I must be crazy. I bought the AP2496 from Zzounds.com, brand new, so it's not some different model or anything - plus I can't find anything about this in the m-audio manual or on their website.
Is the control hidden under some 'advanced' setting? I really can't find it at all. I'm on the verge of just assuming that my card for whatever reason is lacking this functionality.
BTW - Bulls Hit - Anything connected to the 2TR ins will come out the recording out, regardless of button settings, so that's a no-go. In fact, I think the recording out takes ALL signal from the mixer, regardless of any button settings, since I could use the buttons to turn on/off any of those signal routes to the C-R outs, but they still came through the recording out every time. The group out thingie works, but only at +4db, which for the life of me I can't get the card to recognize properly.
arrgghh frustrat-o-matic.
I'll keep looking, and thanks everyone for input. If someone's got a screenshot of the input level control for the AP2496, I'd love to see it, since with 10+ years of computer configuration tweaking experience I still can't find a simple input level switch... I'm going to feel like a superior dumbass when I figure this out (too late).
 
The Audiophile doesn´t allow you to set different levels for ins and outs. What you choose for ins it goes for outs as well. I suggest set both at unity, check consumer option.
 
Burden of Proof said:
BTW - Bulls Hit - Anything connected to the 2TR ins will come out the recording out, regardless of button settings, so that's a no-go. In fact, I think the recording out takes ALL signal from the mixer, regardless of any button settings, since I could use the buttons to turn on/off any of those signal routes to the C-R outs, but they still came through the recording out every time.
Click to expand...

The rec out jacks are fed the same signal as the Stereo bus. The volume knob for 2TR In controls how much of the 2TR signal goes to the stereo bus, so you want to turn that right down for this to work. By depressing the 2TR In button and leaving the ST Group button alone, you will still get the 2TR signal in the CR Out & phone jacks, controlled with their own volume knob. Now the Stereo bus will only contain the signals from your 2 input channel strips.

I'm not suggesting you would want to do this permanently, but it should get you over your problems in the short term
 
sorry to bump this...

but it might help others in the same situation...

TamaSabian - you nailed it. For whatever reason... setting the "output" control on the AP2496 control panel to "consumer" fixed the input levels from the mixer's +4 connections... Call it superwacky if you will (I did) but this sorted it straight out. No more clipping at rational gain settings.

Bulls Hit - Thanks for the info on the 2TR settings, I may play with that some more, but thankfully the simple seemingly unrelated switch on the M-Audio control panel did the trick.

And here I thought I was doing the 'right' thing by setting it to -10 for sending back to the mixer. Are there specs for what 'consumer' settings, or are there really any? Is it just an arbitrary name, or an actual specification? And anyone else know what's up with this setting on the AP2496 and why it should have ANY EFFECT AT ALL on input levels? I stumbled across another thread where a guy was having this same problem trying to record vinyl from his turntable outs into his AP, and getting massive clipping - could it be that the 'consumer' output of the turntable is at +4db, and that the switch in the control panel really means 'output AND input setting' instead of just 'output setting'?

I'm gonna post on that other board to let the vinyl recording guy know about this trick too.

Thanks again everyone.
 
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