Anyone providing song demo services?

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Chili

Chili

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I'm thinking of starting up a small demo service in the future. More along the lines of me putting other people's work to music rather than a band coming in to record their own material. On some of the songwriting forums I visit, I see a lot of people asking for help putting their songs to music. These are people who write lyrics and might have a melody in their head, but can't get the song onto a CD in a pitch-ready format. I've done a few already, but they were more along the lines of collab (One of the songs actually had some interest). What I have in mind would be strictly work for hire.

Anyone here doing something similar? Or know of someone doing this? I have ideas on how I see it working, but would like to hear from others.

Thanks much,
Dave
 
Almost all of my work is geared towards singer/songwriters. They come in with a vocal with guitar or keys and I help them prepare an arrangement and then I add whatever instrumentation that may need (I play several instruments with a reasoanble level of skill) - or - I allow them to play whatever they can or whatever they choose (providing whatever encouragement or judegment may be needed.

This requires me to be an engineer, a producer, an arranger, and a multi instrumental session player. I also can contract in session singers or other musicians for things I can't cut (such as sax, etc). I then help the client if they need outside duplication services, packaging, etc.

This can be a decent flow of clients (not enough to support a full time studio) if you can network or generate enough word of mouth. As an example, I maintain a membership in the Nashville Songwriters Association - which allows me to meet and network with songwriters. I also visit open mic nights and even karaoke bars - looking for potential clients. In addition, since I've been a gigging musician in my area for many years - I know a lot of other musicians (many of which write songs). However, I tend to be rather selective who I actually choose to work with.

Be aware - there are many companies that provide this type of service and which can provide truly impressive demos. If you do an internet search you will find many - in particular in places like Nashville, LA, etc.

If you are in or near those markets -the competition can be fierce. If you are in a city that is not a "music Mecca" then maybe you can capture some local clients who would prefer to have something more hands on (rather than simply sending lyrics to someone in Nashville - as an example).

The one thing I've noticed about the "send us your lyric" demo houses - alot of the music they provide starts to sound alike (as if they have a standard pop ballad arrangement and a stantand coutry two step arrangement, etc.
 
Hey mikeh, thanks for taking the time to respond. What you're doing is a little different from what I have in mind. I would be helping the client who does not have any musical skills at all, but want to write songs and put them in a demo form to pitch to A&R, publishers, etc. They would have to provide me with lyrics and some form of a melody to start from, then I can try to put something together that they can pitch.

Like you said, there are a lot of demo houses that do the same thing. I'm thinking, if I'm working by myself without having to pay musicians, I can put out a product for much less money. Granted, I'm nowhere near the professional level that demo houses can obtain, especially if I have to compete against the Nashville Country Machine. :D But I think I can give a client something worthwhile.

At this stage, I'm only tossing the idea around. It would be fun and maybe generate enough money to buy more gear, a never-ending quest. :cool:

Cheers,
 
If you want to provide clients with a finished product that they can present to publishers, etc - make sure you use the best vocal talent. While I can play down most of the music tracks needed (at least the drums, bass guitasr and any keyboards) - I always try to get my clients to pay so I can hire good singers (unless the client has either a very good or very unique voice). When it comes to demos - the vocal is everything.

For what's it's worth, I do have some clients who are mainly lyricists - who look to me to provide almost all of the music, including tweaing the melody when needed. I find these clients can be very frustrating to work with. They can't communicate well on a musical level, they don't really know what they want or don't want and in general it can be a difficult process.

I much prefer working with someone who is enough of a musician to be able to provide a reasonably effective melody and chord structure - and someone who can at least communicate as a musician.
 
Your info is very valuable, thanks for sharing. Must spread some reputation around before giving.... - guess I recently gave you some.

I don't have a great voice for singing certain genres and for what I feel I can't do myself, I would hire a singer. I live in Austin and have a large talent pool to draw from.

How do you handle the legal end of things? copyright issues, performance rights, etc. I'm inclined to have a clause that would prohibit a client from commercially releasing any of my recordings, but only use them for demo purposes. And I wonder how to handle clients wanting to post to sites like myspace or soundclick, etc.

I would not claim any copyright ownerships because I would expect them to come to me with lyrics and a melody. If I had to help write either, I probably wouldn't accept the job because I don't want to be copyright partners with someone I don't know.

Thanks again for taking the time to post your thoughts.
Cheers,
 
The legal issue can get tricky. I would think if a writer brings you a melody with lyrics (ie: a song) and you simply provide music and an arrangement (ie: you act as a studio musician/engineer/producer) - then you get paid a fee for your services and the client walks out with the demo to do with as they please.

In essence, they pay you for useing your "studio" and part of what they purchase is the finished recording - which is not that different than a client simply coming into your studio to record. Why should they even do business with you if they can't use the recorded material as they choose.

Now if you start to change the melody, etc. - you could cross the line from "studio musician/producer" over to co-writer. How you choose to handle that depends on you, your client and the confidence in the material.

It is not that uncommon for a publisher to use a quality recording for actual commercial use (rather than pay to re-record). I'll give you an example: a writer I work with uses a publisher who specializes in source music for movies and TV. My client expects a finished product that he can give to the publisher - with the hope that the finished product will actually be placed.

In that type of application, I normally simply charge a fee (based on hours I put in) and what the client does with the material is his/her choice. Sometimes, I do barter some or all of my fee in exchange for a partial writer credit - if I have a lot of confidence in the writer and or the material.

In fact, I work with one writer and I often take partial writing credit (sometimes 50%, sometimes 25%) -in part because I think we come up with decent material - but more importantly, because he is tenacious and he will knock on doors, make calls and male material untiil he gets a foot in the door. So, sometimes, if I really think we have something good - I'm willing to trade the up front money for a possible percent of something on the backend. In one case, I made a lot more in publishing and BMI royalties on a song that was used in a copule of movies than I would have based on my fee. However, that was an exception - and normally I prefer a bird in hand. Source material is much different that someone trying to get a contract as an artist - for an artist recording, I would want my money up front.

As you indicate, getting a writer credit with someone you don't know would be difficult to deal with and you'd have to see the proof that the copyright does list you, etc. Naturally, you would probably prefer to simply get paid up front......but if you start to restrict what people can do with the recorded material, you may limit the clients willing to work with you.
 
Hey Chili, I think your idea is sound, but if I were you, I'd wear as few hats as possible. Don't cross the line from producer/engineer to co-writer. That would be a real can of worms in my opinion. Artists are a funny bunch as you well know. If I went to a demo house (which I don't need) and they wanted to share the byline just because they added a bass line or suggested a middle 8 should be added, I'd hit the road pretty quickly.

I would limit your service to writers who have finished writing what they consider a complete song. Chord progression - melody line - and lyrics.

You could enhance their work with harmonies, lead breaks, bass lines, drum programs (or a real drummer) and you would only be creating an arrangement, not taking any credit for authorship.

I would emphasize that point to your clients. It's their baby and you don't have any intention of claiming any part of it. You only want to help with ONE arrangement. HTH:)
 
Hey Xeries, That's exactly my intention. I have done a couple of long distance collabs with lyricists where I provided the music and then produced the song for them. I am sharing copyrights with people I casually met on the internet and I'm not thrilled with the idea. I go to one of the lyricist's myspace page and can hear myself singing and performing our song and it's kind of weird because I really don't have control over it and yet, it's my performance.

But..... there's a lot of people on the songwriting forums who have wonderful ideas in their heads, but can't get them into a song. I'd really like to help them and turn a buck or two for it. I definitely don't want to co-write and don't want to share copyright ownership. I'm wondering if people here with the same experience find it acceptable to perform and produce for a fee and then let their client do as they see fit with the song.

MikeH is comfortable with that and I respect his input. If I do decide to start this endeavor, I will follow his example. And I think he's right; they're paying for it, they should be able to use it as they wish.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Cheers.

:D
 
Chili said:
Hey Xeries, That's exactly my intention. I have done a couple of long distance collabs with lyricists where I provided the music and then produced the song for them. I am sharing copyrights with people I casually met on the internet and I'm not thrilled with the idea. I go to one of the lyricist's myspace page and can hear myself singing and performing our song and it's kind of weird because I really don't have control over it and yet, it's my performance.

But..... there's a lot of people on the songwriting forums who have wonderful ideas in their heads, but can't get them into a song. I'd really like to help them and turn a buck or two for it. I definitely don't want to co-write and don't want to share copyright ownership. I'm wondering if people here with the same experience find it acceptable to perform and produce for a fee and then let their client do as they see fit with the song.

MikeH is comfortable with that and I respect his input. If I do decide to start this endeavor, I will follow his example. And I think he's right; they're paying for it, they should be able to use it as they wish.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Cheers.

:D
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with it. I co-write with people on the web and it always works out fine. There's never been any real money to be made, so there's nothing to fight over. Case in point: This buddy of mine in Pittsburgh (whom I've never met face to face) wrote a cool progression that sounded like something Pink Floyd would do and said he wanted to polish it into a spiritual song.

I write lyrics and I'm a bit of a singer so I said I'd give it a whirl. I wrote "Walk With Me" to his progression and drum track and did my own harmonies. Then another buddy of mine, Tony Sams (formerly of Bad Company) put down some Floyd like licks to the song to flesh it out.

I feel free to put the song on my CDs and the Pittsburgh guy, Tony Faiola feels free to do the same. One day he called me up and asked me where I was born. I knew by that question that he was copyrighting and wanted to include me as an author on the registration. But I never suggested that he include Tony Sams (who is like a brother to me) because he was just a session player. A session player is not a writer and either does it for a favor or gets paid, but not the byline.

A guy on another forum asked for permission to cover the song, so naturally I asked Tony in Pittsburgh if he was cool with that. He said yes and we both emailed the artist with our permission.

Bottom line is, if I play on a person's song, he owns what I've done for him and can do with it what he pleases.

I've even done harp tracks for people and told them that they are free to use them on subsequent songs. So, you've got to just turn it loose.

Hopefully you will get paid for it, although sometimes I do it just for fun.:)
 
similar

What I'm doing is not the same, but is along the same lines. I am a drummer with a home recording studio and do all of my work online. People contact me through my website, give me all the info I need about their song (online order form) and upload their MP3. I get a deposit up front and then record drums. When I give them the sample it has some sort of recurring error mixed in, so they can't steal it, and when they approve it they pay the final balance. I don't go into royalties, getting paid on tunes later, etc. Just get my up front fee and move on. Hope that helps.
 
Thanks again to everyone for posting your thoughts. I'm still a ways off on getting started if I even decide to do it. The info shared here gives me a good idea of how I would want to go about it.

And Xeries, you and your "Walk With Me" song. You posted that song in the MP3 Clinic literally hours before I was going to post mine of the same title. I opted not to saturate the clinic with songs of the same name. lol :D

You can check out mine at

www.soundclick.com/irishpirate

Cheers and thanks again,
 
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