Anyone know where I can buy a good quality wax cylinder?

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Kevin Deschwazi

Kevin Deschwazi

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The following is a quote from Billy Childish (some of who's music I like a lot). Please note that I don't neccessarily share his opinions (i don't have adequate knowledge of music recording/production), but I'd really be interested to hear what some of you people who dedicate large parts of your life to recording music make of comments like this.

"I advocate mono over stereo. Stereo, after all, is only a gimmick based on the idea that, as we have two ears, we can have two speakers and flog twice as much junk to the mugs.

The valve is also preferable to the transistor. The transistor is superior to digital. Analogue recording is better than DAT. Analogue gives character to sound and DAT destroys it. Digital recording has been hyped so as to flatter the egos of the witless into believing they need to be able to hear a mouse fart on The Beatles’ Sergeant Pepper’s album (which, incidentally, is the Beatles’ worst LP, not their best). The most authentic recording ever was made in a field on a wax cylinder, or on a cassette player in somebody’s kitchen. Chart music is not the recording of an event, but a synthetic commodity produced in the same manner as a factory sausage. This kind of plasticising of life destroys the roots of what makes music worth having in the first place.

A synthesised bassoon is only meaningful as a substitute for a real one. The remastering, remixing and digital enhancing of old recordings is pathetic. One of the arguments used to validate this practice is that early recording artists did not have the benefit of more modern recording techniques. Applying the same argument to art, I suggest that all of Van Gogh’s paintings should be sanded down and redone with an airbrush. A painter can be cack-handed and not obsessed with showing off and still be taken seriously. Yet in pop culture only one standard “studio” style of recording is deemed permissible. If we take sound to be the musical equivalent of colour, then Eurobeige is the only pigment allowed."

Discuss
 
Wow, he is SO HXC.

(hardcore, but I'm sure he knows that)

. . .cough, cough (BULLSHIT), cough. . .

:rolleyes:
 
hey kev,
is it your opinion that seargent pepper's sucked or was it billy's?
cause i gotta disagree, SP rocked the world.
 
just my thoughts, mind you.

Kevin DeSchwazi said:
"I advocate mono over stereo. Stereo, after all, is only a gimmick based on the idea that, as we have two ears, we can have two speakers and flog twice as much junk to the mugs.

wrong. stereo is good.

Kevin DeSchwazi said:
Digital recording has been hyped so as to flatter the egos of the witless into believing they need to be able to hear a mouse fart on The Beatles’ Sergeant Pepper’s album

huh? flatter those who want to hear mouse farts? that's not why I use digital.

Kevin DeSchwazi said:
(which, incidentally, is the Beatles’ worst LP, not their best).

no. definitely not.

Kevin DeSchwazi said:
The most authentic recording ever was made in a field on a wax cylinder, or on a cassette player in somebody’s kitchen. Chart music is not the recording of an event, but a synthetic commodity produced in the same manner as a factory sausage. This kind of plasticising of life destroys the roots of what makes music worth having in the first place.

Have you heard a wax cylinder recording? They Might be Giants did one on Factory Showroom called, "I Can Hear You." Check it out for what kind of sound quality you can expect.

This whole paragraph is simply subjective and miseducated opinion.

Kevin DeSchwazi said:
The remastering, remixing and digital enhancing of old recordings is pathetic.

It's called nostalgia. It's not for everyone but we all have our favorite music and I for one find restoration processes remarkably interesting. :D


Kevin DeSchwazi said:
One of the arguments used to validate this practice is that early recording artists did not have the benefit of more modern recording techniques. Applying the same argument to art, I suggest that all of Van Gogh’s paintings should be sanded down and redone with an airbrush.

wrong. no one is suggesting destroying the original. What restoration does is create a new version of familiar material. Re-imagine it, if you will. Should we dwell on embellishing old recordings? In my mind, some tunes deserve it. I liked the beatles remixes.

Kevin DeSchwazi said:
...yet in pop culture only one standard “studio” style of recording is deemed permissible.

bullshit. there are people all over the world doing recordings in different ways. There's no one's stopping Billy from recording his way.

The fact that 99% of the world would rather hear, "mouse fart sensitivity" in their recordings rather than that which comes off the wax cylinder should be a big clue to billy as to why no one else records "his way."

Kevin DeSchwazi said:

this guy sucks. Maybe his music is good but what a mope.
 
Jimbo Jones said:
hey kev,
is it your opinion that seargent pepper's sucked or was it billy's?
cause i gotta disagree, SP rocked the world.

As I said none of this matches up to my own opinions. SP isn't my favourite but it's by no means my least favourite either.


I'd echo faderbugs comment. He has an opinion. It might be bullshit but it's an opinion and I don't think getting defensive and nasty does an opposing argument any favours. If you have genuine faith in your own beliefs on the matter then there is no need for this.

My feeling is that there are a lot of people out there who are a bit too precious about the recording process and not precious enough about music.

I think once the sound quality of a peice of recorded music is no longer something that draws attention to itself then you've got it. (I read that on this BBS somewhere before and have never forgoten it).

I believe the children are our future etc. etc.
 
So because Hitler had 'opinions' and he was evil that means it's fair to compare someone else who has an opinion, on a completely benign subject, with Hitler?

I don't get it.
 
And let me also clear up something.

I am not writing defensively.

I am merely challenging Billy's incredibly short sighted take on the art of recording sophisticated musical arrangements.

Recording is about a lot of different things. Sometimes, recording is about capturing the essence of a live performance, warts and all. Other times, recording is about arranging and building the ideal version of a song.

I, in case you couldn't guess, am less interested in capturing sloppy playing in low fidelity media than in building fantastic music that reaches beyond what simple reality holds us down to.

And since when is maintaining realism seen as a border across which audio engineers must never cross?

I just disagree. I would also hasten to guess that most music professionals would as well.

sounds a lot like bookburning to me.

Miles
 
Kevin DeSchwazi said:
So because Hitler had 'opinions' and he was evil that means it's fair to compare someone else who has an opinion, on a completely benign subject, with Hitler?

I don't get it.

That one was a joke. :)
 
When I wrote about defensive I was referring to the guy who wrote Bullshit and pretty much nothing else. Make a contribution for goodness sake.
I thought your contribution was great. This was what I was hoping for when I started the thread. I don't know much. I love music and I'm trying to make my own music sound ok with a load of crappy kit and very little knowledge. I was just interested to see what you knowledgeable folks thought of these kinds of views.

All the best

Nick (my name's not really Kevin Deschwazi)
 
Billy should stick to subjects that musicians are good at like what is the best hair spray and how to keep your eye liner from smearing during a 2 hour set. If you want advice on the best way to fix a car are you going to ask a mechanic or a taxi driver?

Using Billy's logic a porno shot with a hand held video camera has more integrity then Gone With the Wind. I would agree that the content is more important then the means of capturing it but just because you use a simple or crappy technology to do the job does not mean the content suddenly has more value or credibility.

Usually people who rail against technology and production values are trying to justify why their stuff just doesn't measure up.
 
Kevin DeSchwazi said:
Nick (my name's not really Kevin Deschwazi)

now you tell me ..................

oh well, it's my name too, but i spell it without a 'C'!

Regards,

Nik
 
You talkin' to me?!

Kevin DeSchwazi said:
When I wrote about defensive I was referring to the guy who wrote Bullshit and pretty much nothing else. Make a contribution for goodness sake.

You really don't want that, trust me. :)

Kevin DeSchwazi said:
He has an opinion. It might be bullshit but it's an opinion and I don't think getting defensive and nasty does an opposing argument any favours. If you have genuine faith in your own beliefs on the matter then there is no need for this.

Defensive? No. Dismissive? Yup. This guy crams every recording myth for the semi-informed into two-and-a-half paragraphs, all with that annoying "I dare you to say otherwise" attitude, so what can I do except immediately call out bullshit.

I would have done it point by point (stonepiano did an excellent job), but I would have written bullshit after the first few statements, followed by eye rolls for the rest. Waste of my time and yours.

Anyhoo, opinions are one thing, opinions stated as fact are another. I'd like to know the methods and practices he used for his comprehensive, universally authoritative for all time, no tag-backs, freezes or force fields, research.

Of course, if he was being facetious, I totally agree with everything he said.
 
TexRoadkill said:
I would agree that the content is more important then the means of capturing it but just because you use a simple or crappy technology to do the job does not mean the content suddenly has more value or credibility.

Usually people who rail against technology and production values are trying to justify why their stuff just doesn't measure up.

Yeah, what he said. :D
 
noisedude said:
now you tell me ..................

oh well, it's my name too, but i spell it without a 'C'!

Regards,

Nik

Whoa!!! You're the only other Nik I know of! Awesome! Sorry to hijack the thread, so here's my 2 cents... If a mouse farts during tracking and there's only a wax cylinder to record it, did the mouse ever fart in the first place?
- Nik
 
From what I gathered through a Google search I don't think the guy gives a damn about fidelity for fidelity's sake.

He seems much more interested in the fidelity of the SOUL of the music.

It's difficult to disagree with a guy that says popular music is a commodity.

It is.

It's prepackaged and sold and it might as well be sausage.

Give a listen sometime to the Folkway's American Music collection, recorded in the field by Alan and John Lomax. On the early recordings you can here the lathe in the background cutting the recording! Those recordings capture a folk music history that is long gone and died with the musicians. If not for those recordings we wouldn't have the faintest idea of American folk music from the early 20's and 30's.

I think from the passage above his bitch is about using technology to doctor the recording. You honestly think any of the big touring acts travel without racks of Autotunes??? Even Faith Hill is bound to have an off night. But NOBODY wants to hear THAT!

I know I'm one of the few DeadHeads around here, and say what you will about them, but when they sucked, they sucked for all it was worth.

And they never apologized for it.

But by not bending to use technology to cover up the fuckups, when they shined it was all them.

I think it points out a big problem in our modern society: the idea that everything has to be PERFECT all the time.

There's damned little soul in that. And when I've seen acts struggle through a set, often as not the crowd will get behind them and help get them back on track.

Music is about interaction. It's about reaching for that lick you've never been able to pull off. I'm as guilty as possible of NOT interacting with my music. Involving other people can be a huge pain in the ass! But the best music I've heard and seen was usually right off the cuff and improvised on the spot. Maybe it was a distillation of years of playing those licks, but you know you've had those magic moments when the players talking to each other through their instruments made your hair raise up on the back of your neck.

I feel fortunate that I've had plenty of those experiences. In arenas with 20,000 other people there watching, or around a campfire listening to a bluegrass band at a jam. Those are the best moments, when folks "grind diamonds out of time", as one old DH once put it.
 
mallcore pop said:
You talkin' to me?!

Defensive? No. Dismissive? Yup. This guy crams every recording myth for the semi-informed into two-and-a-half paragraphs, all with that annoying "I dare you to say otherwise" attitude, so what can I do except immediately call out bullshit.

I would have done it point by point (stonepiano did an excellent job), but I would have written bullshit after the first few statements, followed by eye rolls for the rest. Waste of my time and yours.

Anyhoo, opinions are one thing, opinions stated as fact are another. I'd like to know the methods and practices he used for his comprehensive, universally authoritative for all time, no tag-backs, freezes or force fields, research.

Of course, if he was being facetious, I totally agree with everything he said.

yeah baby that's more like it
 
wax cylinder recording

Kevin DeSchwazi said:
yeah baby that's more like it

Wax cylinders can sound good, they can sound bad, it depends on the weather, and the person making them. I make the cylinders from scratch, and record on them. They have a presence and character that is amazing. Don't get me wrong, they are not HI Fi, but they do record everything that a modern recorder does not. about the softest sound they record is a whisper. They certainly sound better than a cheap cassette recorder. There are still over 100,000 Edison cylinder PHonographs, pretty good for somthing that has not been made since 1929 (the last cylinder records were recorded electrically)
 
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