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Jamous
New member
Well if he cut down on the liquids he could save a potty break or two. 
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cortexx
Member
hehe well yea most of my timeis going into the learning curve right now so im not having much spare time to play.
I use my V-synth as a midi controller for my proteus 2000 rack and practice my exercises using the grand piano patch ( it sounds pretty realistic ).
The piano teacher teachers from a book that I take home and work from. The book consists of written exercises, short playble pieces and technique exercises.
I usually spend an hour a night practicing what we went over in the last lesson ( lesson is once a week ), followed by 1/2 hour of mind numbingly repetitive written stuff ( usually filling in the name of the notes on the grand staff or naming the chords ), followed by 1/2 hour - 1 hour of mind numbingly repetitive scales and played exercises ( for example chord progessions )
If i think I am doing ok i`ll reward myself by routing midi to my virus and practice the chord progressions using the Overture patch ( which I could do all night because the virus in combination with a little reverb sounds simply amazing ).
The written stuff is crucial to accelerate your learning because note association is probably the hardest part of learning to read muisic. Once this becomes second nature your playing becomes much more accurate as you can concentrate on timing, slurs, and everthing else because your brain has to process in real time.
I just bought a novation station x25 so that i can sit on the couch watch tv and be able to do endless chord progessions with my hands. The goal is to be able to do them accurately and this takes alot of repetitive practice
having said that I am giving myself 2 years to max out my skill, I tend to put 110% into learning something if I decide thats what i intend to do. I doubt many people could do this because it is repeptitive and I have been known to fall asleep at my v-synth and get woken by my wife because im making some god aweful noise without realising it
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Emusic
New member
Welcome to the club of the chosen ones that can play a keyboard ^^cortexx said:
After some years you wont even have to look at the notes to play a melody. You will just have to look briefly on the chords and the melody will very easily fall natural based upon that chord.
That is if you know what the songs sounds like ocoz.
Yeah it is a tedious thing to learn in the beginning.
Dont give up.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
I'm really not buying into that 7 note system. There are twelve notes per octave and I think it is better to deal with that reality rather than to fudge a "white key" approach. What if you have to play a tune in G flat, or B major, for example?
There are 24 keys, twelve major and twelve minor, and it's best to learn those and be able to play chord changes in all of them.
A very simple way to start learning all the keys is to play a simple chord progression in each of them. So for example, in the key of "C" you'd play a I-IV-V-I chord progression, then go up a half step to Db and play the same I-IV-V-I progression in that key. Then go up again, and on until you have played the same chord changes in all the major keys. Then do the same in minor. Then play other chord progressions in each key. You'll learn chord progressions and have the ability to play them in a variety of keys fairly easily this way.
The ability to sight read music, both notes on the page and chords, is probably the single most important skill a musician can learn. If you can sight read well you can make a living.
Likewise, a knowledge of music theory is helpful to any musician, and depending on what you are doing may be vital to your work. I trained from the age of being a pre-teen in the areas of music theory/composing, sight reading, and piano performance. As a result I have a lot of skills to draw upon, which helps me get work.
If you have a local college that offers music theory classes, you might find it helpful to take some of those courses. One can never be too old for this stuff, you are always learning. It's also a very big field, there's a lot to learn. Learning what the basic chords are and how to read lead sheets is just the very start of it. There's voice leading, counterpoint, orchestration, all huge subjects.
There are 24 keys, twelve major and twelve minor, and it's best to learn those and be able to play chord changes in all of them.
A very simple way to start learning all the keys is to play a simple chord progression in each of them. So for example, in the key of "C" you'd play a I-IV-V-I chord progression, then go up a half step to Db and play the same I-IV-V-I progression in that key. Then go up again, and on until you have played the same chord changes in all the major keys. Then do the same in minor. Then play other chord progressions in each key. You'll learn chord progressions and have the ability to play them in a variety of keys fairly easily this way.
The ability to sight read music, both notes on the page and chords, is probably the single most important skill a musician can learn. If you can sight read well you can make a living.
Likewise, a knowledge of music theory is helpful to any musician, and depending on what you are doing may be vital to your work. I trained from the age of being a pre-teen in the areas of music theory/composing, sight reading, and piano performance. As a result I have a lot of skills to draw upon, which helps me get work.
If you have a local college that offers music theory classes, you might find it helpful to take some of those courses. One can never be too old for this stuff, you are always learning. It's also a very big field, there's a lot to learn. Learning what the basic chords are and how to read lead sheets is just the very start of it. There's voice leading, counterpoint, orchestration, all huge subjects.
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Emusic
New member
err wrong thread. Someone delete this
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Vigilante
Gear nut
I can read sheet music and can't play by ear.
Let me hear a chord or a simple arpeggio and then give me maybe 15 minutes to figure it out. But give me the sheet music or chord notation and I'm off!
Those of you who play by ear, consider yourself lucky. Sometimes I wish I played by ear versus sheet music. It's not very fun if you're at a party or something and somebody finds out you can play, so you sit down and have NOTHING to play because there's no music in front of you.
Best way though, learn both playing by ear, by chords, by sheet music. And on top of that, learn 5 or 10 fun songs by heart.
Let me hear a chord or a simple arpeggio and then give me maybe 15 minutes to figure it out. But give me the sheet music or chord notation and I'm off!
Those of you who play by ear, consider yourself lucky. Sometimes I wish I played by ear versus sheet music. It's not very fun if you're at a party or something and somebody finds out you can play, so you sit down and have NOTHING to play because there's no music in front of you.
Best way though, learn both playing by ear, by chords, by sheet music. And on top of that, learn 5 or 10 fun songs by heart.
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darrvid
New member
I'd argue that you only need to learn the 7 notes first. When reading music, it's only the white keys which are notated, augmented by a sharp or flat sign. If you know where the F lies in the treble cleff, it's pretty natural to play an F# even if you've only memorized where F is. If #'s and b's had their own spot on a clef, it'd be a different story.
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Edit: Where I really struggled while learning was playing in keys with lots of natural #'s and b's (this is what I think was being pointed out earlier), since you need to remember to add those without them being notated throughout the song.
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Edit: Where I really struggled while learning was playing in keys with lots of natural #'s and b's (this is what I think was being pointed out earlier), since you need to remember to add those without them being notated throughout the song.
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Jamous
New member
It's also helpful in learning to read, even if you don't consider yourself a singer, to practice singing those seven tones of the major and minor scales with the Solfege syllables as you play and read them. Studies have shown that the vocal mechanism is activated (whether you are aware of it or not) when mentally searching for melody notes.
Do, Re, Mi, Fa, So, La, Ti Do for the major scales starting with a C and progressing through all twelve tones (C#,D,D# etc). The minor scale is expressed with different pronunciation: Do, Re, Me(may), Fa So Le(lay), Te(tay) Do.
Do, Re, Mi, Fa, So, La, Ti Do for the major scales starting with a C and progressing through all twelve tones (C#,D,D# etc). The minor scale is expressed with different pronunciation: Do, Re, Me(may), Fa So Le(lay), Te(tay) Do.
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cortexx
Member
Update:-
According to my teacher i`m at grade 3 level piano now but at this stage progress is much slower. I had to take a short break from it as i was becoming frustrated at my own lack of learning speed, I expect too much from myself apparently
I at one point was practicing 3-4 hours a night and actualy started falling asleep at the keyboard.
I`m trying not to get burned out from it but my enthusiasm and determination are driving me very to the brink of anger some nights , I have got to this stage in about 12 weeks from a point of not being able to read period.
I still want to be grade 5 by the end of the year
According to my teacher i`m at grade 3 level piano now but at this stage progress is much slower. I had to take a short break from it as i was becoming frustrated at my own lack of learning speed, I expect too much from myself apparently
I at one point was practicing 3-4 hours a night and actualy started falling asleep at the keyboard.
I`m trying not to get burned out from it but my enthusiasm and determination are driving me very to the brink of anger some nights , I have got to this stage in about 12 weeks from a point of not being able to read period.
I still want to be grade 5 by the end of the year
bsr2002
Denny Crane
I can read as well, and find that it comes in handy when in the studio when they hand you a sheet. But in figuring out songs from lets say CD or radio I can figure those songs in about 10 minutes 
The only actual reading I do when at home is merely the finger exercise book to keep me limber.
The only actual reading I do when at home is merely the finger exercise book to keep me limber.
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Agent47
Dismember
Learn your chords
The greatest thing I ever learned to do music-wise was learn my chords.
I had piano lessons for quite a few years (started in 1986 when I was 10 - sh*t I'm old), but my teacher never touched upon chords - she simply got me to reproduce what was on the sheet music. No improvisation, nothing. You learn a lot about music playing Beethoven, but you're missing out if chords are left out of the learning process.
It was only when I started to work with bands that I got into chords, and for me it was hugely valuable. Without that knowledge, I wouldn't be able to improv with bands, or indeed write music.
If I can give advice to anyone starting to learn piano, it is this: *Learn your chords*. Sure, cover the other parts like scales and music reading, but do not overlook chords. They are the key to improvising.
Once you know your chords you can take jazz 'real books' and play simply using the melody line, filling out your own accompaniment using the chords. Ditto for any song book. Band members can throw their songs at you, scribbled chords on bits of paper, and you can play along. I think you'd really struggle in a band as a keyboardist who can only read sheet music.
The same goes for writing. I've written tons of songs over the years in bands. I joined a band once as writer and keyboardist. They'd just ditched their previous writer/keyboardist and was amazed that I could knock off a song within minutes, just jotting chords onto note paper. Their previous person would notate every note of her songs... It's take days to write one song...
My old piano teacher once told me that there are two types of musician - sight-readers and improvisers. You're good at one and bad at the other - rarely can you do both equally well. I know which one I am. My sight-reading is absolutely dire...
The greatest thing I ever learned to do music-wise was learn my chords.
I had piano lessons for quite a few years (started in 1986 when I was 10 - sh*t I'm old), but my teacher never touched upon chords - she simply got me to reproduce what was on the sheet music. No improvisation, nothing. You learn a lot about music playing Beethoven, but you're missing out if chords are left out of the learning process.
It was only when I started to work with bands that I got into chords, and for me it was hugely valuable. Without that knowledge, I wouldn't be able to improv with bands, or indeed write music.
If I can give advice to anyone starting to learn piano, it is this: *Learn your chords*. Sure, cover the other parts like scales and music reading, but do not overlook chords. They are the key to improvising.
Once you know your chords you can take jazz 'real books' and play simply using the melody line, filling out your own accompaniment using the chords. Ditto for any song book. Band members can throw their songs at you, scribbled chords on bits of paper, and you can play along. I think you'd really struggle in a band as a keyboardist who can only read sheet music.
The same goes for writing. I've written tons of songs over the years in bands. I joined a band once as writer and keyboardist. They'd just ditched their previous writer/keyboardist and was amazed that I could knock off a song within minutes, just jotting chords onto note paper. Their previous person would notate every note of her songs... It's take days to write one song...
My old piano teacher once told me that there are two types of musician - sight-readers and improvisers. You're good at one and bad at the other - rarely can you do both equally well. I know which one I am. My sight-reading is absolutely dire...
fraserhutch
Flypaper for freaks
Agent47 said:
So are you actually implying that jazz musicians can't sight read very well?
Your old piano teach is VERY wrong here. In fact, the big band I play in is filled with guys who do both very well.
leddy
Well-known member
Agent47 said:
You probably did not take piano lessons long enough. Classical musicians certainly learn harmony. Improvisation can also be part of classical music.
I am a working jazz musician. Everyone I play with reads well. Reading, improvising - it's all part of music. Nothing is mutually exclusive. Serious players strive to excel at every aspect of their craft.
Not knowing how to read (and read well) will limit your opportunities to play music, especially as you get older. It's one of the biggest differences between professionals and hacks.
fraserhutch
Flypaper for freaks
I agree here 100%.leddy said:
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Agent47
Dismember
Fraserhutch - I wasn't implying that jazz musicians can't sight-read very well. Not sure where that one came from... I was merely quoting someone else. If you wish to take this up with her, I can give you her number. 
Certainly Leddy. My piano teacher never really touched upon anything other than playing what was in front of me. I'm sure doing scales and broken-chords helped with chord knowledge, but ultimately things like 7ths, dims, augs, mag 7ths etc. I learnt outside of lessons. She certainly never took apart a piece and showed me what each chord was.
For me personally, I'm absolutely awful at sight-reading, always have been, and that's one area I should improve. I can read obviously, but I couldn't take a Beethoven sonata I'd never seen before and just play it. I'm envious of people that can. Conversely, I've always excelled at improvisation, and had no problems with that. I can fill out an accompaniment to a song following the chords, not just hammering the chords out, but filling in a bass line, melodies and ornamentation etc.
For me, through my own faults, the one-type-of-musician-or-the-other rings true.
Maybe she was just trying to make me feel better. Damn...
Certainly Leddy. My piano teacher never really touched upon anything other than playing what was in front of me. I'm sure doing scales and broken-chords helped with chord knowledge, but ultimately things like 7ths, dims, augs, mag 7ths etc. I learnt outside of lessons. She certainly never took apart a piece and showed me what each chord was.
For me personally, I'm absolutely awful at sight-reading, always have been, and that's one area I should improve. I can read obviously, but I couldn't take a Beethoven sonata I'd never seen before and just play it. I'm envious of people that can. Conversely, I've always excelled at improvisation, and had no problems with that. I can fill out an accompaniment to a song following the chords, not just hammering the chords out, but filling in a bass line, melodies and ornamentation etc.
For me, through my own faults, the one-type-of-musician-or-the-other rings true.
Maybe she was just trying to make me feel better. Damn...
leddy
Well-known member
Well it sounds like you can read, just not as well as you would like. There's a big difference between that and NOT reading.
I think it all comes down to what role you want music to play in your life. The more well-rounded you are, the more options you will have.
I think it all comes down to what role you want music to play in your life. The more well-rounded you are, the more options you will have.