Any1 tested/used Meek VC1Q vs. En-Voice?

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Speeddemon

Speeddemon

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Well here's the deal:
Right now I only have the mic pre's of my Korg D16. They ain't all that. So I'm gonna buy some external pre's, an Audiobuddy and/or a DMP-3 probably. But If I would add the VC1Q or a En-Voice, would that be an even bigger improvement, or are they 'just' up to par with the Audiobuddy/DMP-3 pre's?

Ofcourse I understand that the VC1Q and En-VOice are complete channelstrips, with eq's and compressors, but I want to know what your experiences are.

I also know I'm on dangerous territory, since both En-Voice and Meek users are 'following a Star Trekish cult' ;)
But anyway, gimme some details, pleazz.
(The price is the same on them in the Netherlands and Germany, both $500 each...)
 
Actually, it's the Envoice users that are the weirdos. Look out for those guys. :)

I'll give you some pre-qualification (no pun intended), so you can take my comments with a grain of salt, as I don't want to be "one of those" guys who talks about gear he doesn't own.

That said, I own a Mindprint D.I. port, which uses the same Class-A pres as the Envoice. I also own a Joemeek VC6Q, the next step down from the VC1Q. I have worked with the VC1Q and the VC3Q, both of which I borrowed (swapped with a buddy of mine for two of my mics) for about a month.

To be totally honest with you, I didn't hear one iota's worth of difference between the 3Q and the 6Q. They're both just as quarky and eccentric to use . . . actually the 3Q was a bit easier, although less flexible. The 1Q sounded ever so slightly better, but that could have just been purely psychological, since I sort of expected it to sound better. I wasn't blown away by any stretch, though.

To me, all the meeks are pretty much the same beast. Funny to use and take a lot of getting used to, and they all impart that cool sound (from the compressor and eq) I've grown familiar with - an aggressive sound on guitars, and a bit of a mid-rangy "ring" to the vocals that makes it sound . . . well . . . just sort of cool, for lack of a better term. I'm learning to spot opto-compressed tracks by ear.

My D.I. port just sounds very clean. It has an unusually high impedence, which helps boost the high frequencies in some instruments -- I like it a lot on accoustic guitars and tamborine. It doesn't like dynamic mics as much as it likes condensers. All in all, I like it no more or less than the preamps on my Mackie board, or my DMP2. Which is about the same as what I can say for the meek's preamp without the compressor or eq.

Jusum Pilgrim seems to like the Envoice pres an awful lot, and I respect his opinions, so that's definitely something to consider. What it all boils down to, I would guess, would be all the "extras" you get with the Envoice, versus the distinct flavoring you get with something like the VC1Q versus just saving yourself some money and getting something that makes more economical sense, like a DMP3 or a Symetrix 528E (which would be my choice as an inexpensive "all-in-one").
 
So, if I'm getting this correctly; you think that the Envoice will be a tad cleaner than the Meek, but not any different in terms of quality?

Did you notice a big difference in sound quality between your DMP-2 and the Meek VC1Q?

The Meek benefits from:
-having an opto compressor
-having a musical mid sweep-eq
-havind access to a de-esser/enhancer

The Envoice benefits from:
-having a tube drive
-having a VERY comprehensive EQ section
-having a switchable low-cut

WHICH ONE? :confused: ARGGHHH!

Can the Envoice be turned as 'retro' as the Meek? Or is it more aimed towards clean, no-nonsense reproduction of the signal?


Oh, and if anyone can answer my 2nd question: If I already have an Audiobuddy and/or a DMP-3, will the VC1Q or an Envoice be an improvement, gainwise, and sound quality wise?
 
Chessrock-

Do you think the higher priced Meeks are a waste of money? I was curious about the De-esser on the Studio Channel. Did you play with that at all?
 
TexRoadkill said:
Chessrock-

Do you think the higher priced Meeks are a waste of money? I was curious about the De-esser on the Studio Channel. Did you play with that at all?
Click to expand...

Apples and oranges. The VC1Q is a transformer based mic pre. The Q6 and Q3 use the same transformerless preamp. IMO the 6Q, although a very nice box, is not in the same league as the VC1Q. The Q1 preamp is simply better. And, yes, it is worth the $.
 
Speed,

It's hard for me to say what "really" sounds better and what I "think" sounds better because I am expecting it too, since it's more expensive. I mean, honestly, if you were to put the dmp2 in to a fancy box with lots of shiny buttons, and put it next to another dmp2 in it's natural state, I'll bet a lot of people would listen to both of them . . . then point to the fancy-looking one and say: "Yea, that one there is definitely better."

So what I'm really saying is that I "thought" the VC1Q sounded a little better, but I'm afraid it wasn't by a wide-enough margin to conclude definitively. It might have just been me expecting it to.

I see now from tdukex's reply that I was right about the 3Q and the 6Q. I thought they sounded like the same damn thing, although I was expecting the 6Q to sound better. :)

In conclusion: To me, the meek isn't about a quality gain channel. Any additional purity of gain or whatever is going to be completely upstaged by it's unique-sounding comp and eq.

Now I have no idea what the tube or eq will do to the sound of the envoice, but I can definitely tell you that the Mindprint's preamp section will give sort of an illusion of having a "crisper" sound to it with greater high-end detail. Now I'm not very knowlegeable about this stuff, but I believe Dan Kennedy posted about this a few months ago: higher-impedance pres tend to work like a shelving eq, boosting the high end a tad.

In conclusion, you have to look at each on it's merits. When I record accoustic guitars, I want the high end boost of the mindprint (so I don't have to eq as much when mixing). When I record electric guitars and certain types of vocalists who need a little extra "something" I like to use the 6Q. When I'm using a mic with very low output (like my shure sm7) I use my dmp2, because it will give me the quietest gain.

But in fact, I use the Mackies more than anything, because I don't like to have to think about it so much. :) I'm a recovering over-analyzer who is making some steady progress.

At least I'm trying.
 
Alright now, it's time to settle this once and for all . . .

Who is weirder: The Joemeek guys or the Mindprint guys?
 
I have both the VC1Qcs and the Envoice. After I got my Joemeek, I didn't really use the Envoice anymore so much - mainly because I usually record only one mic at a time.

Both are very nice units but the Meek gives you a great, distinct yet subtle compressor sound that you won't find cheaply anywhere else. The Envoice comp does its job very well but doesn't have character - an I prefer to us an RNC for those clean jobs.

The preamps are great in both units. However, mind the envoice's high impedance - it does affect the sound. I generally like my vocals to have a "fuller" sound and, for that reason, again prefer the Joemeek.
I don't record much guitar sounds though but like chessrock, I found that I liked the Envoice better for recording acoustic guitars.
 
Great! This is very helpful info MCR!

Not to diss the others, but Mcr gave me a more inside scoop.

Anyway, I think I might be going with the Meek then. Still, I AM gonna check the En-Voice.

MCR, you said you liked the En-Voice better on acoustic guitars, since it seems cleaner and more neutral... would you think that an Audiobuddy or DMP-3 would also work better on acoustic guitars, than with the Meek? Possible mics: AT 4033, Rode NTK, Behringer ECM8000....

Any thoughts?

you DO use the Meek for electric (distorted) guitar amps?
 
When recording, I usually find myself using more compression for accoustic guitar than for vocals. I think that's because the guitar is typically played with a relatively wide dynamic range + even more than the vocals, I want the guitar to sit firmly in the mix (i.e. not jumping in an out of it too much).
Basically, this means that by using the Joemeek for an accoustic guitar I often end up coloring the sound more than I want. I haven't recorded any electric guitars yet but I can only assume the Meek would do a very nice job there. Afterall, you buy a good accoustic guitar to have it's nice, genuine sound. An electric guitar depends on a good pre-amp and effects processor to breathe life and flavor into the sound - and the Meek does a great job at that.

The DMP3 is only a pre-amp. I haven't used it but would trust it to do a good job based on the opinions I read on this board. However, I'm not sure whether it offers better pre-amps than the ones found on the Meek or the Envoice.

For "clean" recordings: DMP3 + RNC vs. Envoice --- depends on what you like using. Essentially it comes down to choosing the better compressor on the RNC vs. having the EQ on the Envoice ... you decide what you prefer. The envoice is a great unit though so, there's no disrespecting my Ennie ;)

BTW, you do know that the Envoice has a toob gimmick ... it's quite ok but even more subtle than I wish it were. Again, I prefer the Meek's opto sound.
 
That was an excellent response, MCR.

I'd like to add that, in my opinion, the Joemeek is the best thing out there for electric guitar that I know of. Every electric guitar track I record now goes through it at some point.

As far as accoustic guitar goes, I would think that they would sound just fine if you were to bypass the compressor. All of the meeks have a good preamp/gain stage, particularly the 1Q, that by themselves are very clean and accurate.

One word of warning that I think we all failed to mention, though: The Joemeek's compressor is really more of an effect than anything else. If your goal is to compress a signal for the sake of compressing it and fitting it in the mix better, then the meek performs poorly in this regard. Why? Because it's photo-optic, and as such it is slow as Molasses.

You will get clipping at random times if you don't use a limiter . . . and if you use it on something like funk bass, forget it. You can't set the attack fast enough to handle all the quick pops. It is useful on drums, ironically enough as a gate. By the time the compressor responds, the stick has already hit the head, so the real volume reduction is actually what is between the hits. :)

I would imagine a vc1q plus rnc would make for a great combo.
 
I hate to interrupt this Joe Meek "orgasm", but what sounds good to each individual's ears is purely subjective.

That being said, the Envoice has the ability to go from pristine (clean) to a sound that's warmer than a Cleveland Steamer (tube saturation). If you use a tube mic like the NTK with the Envoice (..which is the combo I have) the sound is nothing short of incredible... "pro" quality and depth, for sure.

With Meek you get one sound, albeit a nice one... but it's still somewhat one-dimensional.
The Envoice gives more tonal options to work with.

Like I said, this stuff is subjective.
I bought my Envoice after comparing it side-by-side with about 15 other preamps. I'm not trying to discredit Meek products or anybody's opinions here, because that's all they are... just opinions.
Meek products are great for many, but not for everyone.

There's one, and ONLY one way to buy a preamp... by listening to them in person, or listening to LOTS of MP3's of the various models. Only the listener who is the potential buyer has the opinion that matters most.

just my 2 cents
 
tdukex said:
With inflation, Buck, that's really only $0.0197 worth of input.:D
Click to expand...

Yeah, but the Democrats just taxed my $0.0197 down to $0.0003!!! :eek:
 
Although Ive weighed in on this issue in dozens of posts Ill just add that as Buck said, its about tonal options. Thats where the envoice excels.

Generally, few will argue with these combos:

Envoice for vox, acoustics and percussion.

Meek for guitars.

BTW, as far as the vc3q and the vc6q, they have the same pre but the noise floor is lower on the vc6q, though not as low as the envoice. The vc6q gives you more parameters in each section than the vc3q which gives you more tonal possibilities.
I would get an envoice before a meek bec its more bang for the buck. Vocals with the meek get tired pretty quickly. They are sports cars, not family cars. Think practically.

As far as what Chessrock mentioned about the impedance on mindprint pres, it may be the case but the end result is inarguable: a crisp, open, detailed high end. A high end that is natural sounding even if ever so slightly hyped. I will admit to being somewhat partial to sparklingly clean pres. Dynamic mics sound fine through the mindprints although I run them through my soundcraft. (BTW, theres a great set of plugs made by PSP that hasnt gotten much attention. Among them is something called MixTreble which is kind of like steinberg's spectralizer but with alot more parameters; its also more natural sounding. Ive been using it alot recently. If youre into hyped and really nice sparkling high end, this is your plug. The whole pack is the best thing you can do for $100 right now. Waves quality, IMO....and sometimes better.)

Ive been meaning to post songs done with all the above pres. Im finishing a compilation CD of work done at my studio to pass around to clients, musicians and colleagues here in NYC. When its done I will put the meek vs mindprint debate to rest once and for all. :D :D
 
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Jusum, I DO record guitars the most. Electric guitars. Distorted and clean. I'm not a great singer, and I will only now and then record acoustic guitars.
Hmm. I can test the En-VOice pretty easy, since a local shop knows me well, and they carry it. But to get the Meek to my home-studio, is a different story. And I'd really like to A/B them.
I'm still not sure about the mic; at 4033, sp c1, at 4047. rode ntk.... :confused:
 
Speeddemon,

We seem to want the same items!!

I'm looking at a Joe Meek Twin Qcs and an AT4033 myself. I've come to those decisons by researching in stores and various forums. I haven't tried the Meek, but I'm curious enough to give it a shot since no store around here carries one...

Good luck...
Steve
 
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