Any suggestions to bring some life to my recordings?

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doriangrey

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I need some input from experienced sound engineers please.

Here is an mp3 clip of a bluesy/jazzy instrumental from my current set up for guidance:



I play blues and rock and would like to achieve the most pro sounding ( hit making quality ) results I can get from my home studio. I need to upgrade the quality of my home studio badly with a kick ass Mic Pre/compressor and possibly an EQ :confused:

I'm currently recording my guitars and vox through a PreSonus TubePre going into my EMU1820m sound card. At this time, I do all drum tracks with my Triton Le. For FX, I'm using the presets in the Patchmix DSP that comes with the EMU and they're not that great :(

I was pondering going for the GREAT RIVER ME-1NV Mic Pre. I've read stellar reviews on it and I was going to pair it up with a RNC compressor, but I like the idea of having the Mic Pre and Compressor all in the same unit like the JOE MEEK VC1Q. Those are pretty nicely priced on Ebay sometimes. I like the idea of having the Mic Pre/Compressor and EQ all in 1. Would the Joe Meek be a considerable upgrade in sound quality or would I be wasting my time?

Are there any all in one units that blow Joe Meek out of the water under $1500 that I should consider? I would like to stay around $1000-$1400 range but might possibly be able to push for $2000.

The Manly Voxbox and Avalon 737 are some pricey considerations. Perhaps if I can find a good "used" deal on Ebay.

Thanks for any input,

Derek
 
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Mixed Emotions

Hey,
MY GOD, I love your guitar playing. I think the guitar sounds great. But Get a real drummer. That is setting you back. Or, find some drum loops and a program like acid or anything that will put some drum loops together. What kind of guitar and amp is that? Sound killer to me. I like the bass too. But the drums are like faker than the boobs on Pamela Anderson. Again, KILLER guitar playing though. I like.
 
My first step would be to stop using presets. Apply effects using your ears, moving towards solving the problems you hear.

Your band here sounds pretty tight. I understand your need to give a little life to the recordings, but you're definitely on the right track.

There are many threads about preamps that say a lot more than I can here. The first thing I hear that could help you out a bit is to record the rhythm instruments with a bit more power. Maybe turn the bass amp up a bit and have the bass player play with a bit more umph. The drums could use a bit of an ass kick too. The guitar player seems to have the idea.
 
Derek, by the sound of your MP3 [ sweet gtr playing, BTW ] I'd think you'd be going for something more classic sounding. I know you're liking the idea of an all-in-one, but that mostly in the mid-level units - and only on a few select higher-end units that are beyond your budget. You're going to get much better performance if you go with a better individual pre than you will from a mid-level channel strip. I also think you might be overestimating what an EQ can do for you. You'd get better results focusing on mic choice, mic placement and room acoustics.

Here's a couple pres to consider...

Great River MP/ME-NV - This is going for more of a classic, vintage sound. Very versatile. Runs the spectrum of fairly clean to very ballsy depending on how you set up the input/output ratio. Stacks well over many tracks better than many other 1272/1073-based pres. I reviewed the NV-1 here.

Phoenix Audio (UK) DRS - This is not a "Neve clone". It's an original design by ex-Neve folks. It's a very modern-sounding pre. Slightly less colored than API. What sets the DRS apart is its spacious, airy valve-like sound. Another great, all-purpose pre that sits well in a mix when used over many tracks. I reviewed the DRS-2 here.
 
Thank you for the compliment :)

On that particular recording, I'm using my PRS Artist III through my Mesa Mark IV "recording out" going directly into my soundcard ( Creative Audigy 2 at the time ). The bass was tracked the same way. My soundcard now is a 24 bit EMU 1820m. Now, I just mic my cabinet with an SM 57 and it sounds much better than using the direct out on my Mesa.

I've performed with some grade A drummers in the past. I just want to be able and achieve the best results at home. I'm sick of dealing with personalities, lol.

The Acid loops is a great idea. I've never tried it before. I'm just playing the Triton LE's drum tracks to a metronome by hand. I'm using Cakewalk Guitar Tracks Pro 2 by the way. I will look into using some acid loops for sure. Thanks for the pointers!

Derek

Sporkmyband said:
Hey,
MY GOD, I love your guitar playing. I think the guitar sounds great. But Get a real drummer. That is setting you back. Or, find some drum loops and a program like acid or anything that will put some drum loops together. What kind of guitar and amp is that? Sound killer to me. I like the bass too. But the drums are like faker than the boobs on Pamela Anderson. Again, KILLER guitar playing though. I like.
Click to expand...
 
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First off, I'm playing on a $35 crappy bass. The only thing that is saving the bass is some EMG pickups. However, I'm in the market for a Schecter Model T. I'm thinking that a good pre amp would give the bass a good kick in the ass as well. Thank you for the input :)


ryanlikestorock said:
My first step would be to stop using presets. Apply effects using your ears, moving towards solving the problems you hear.

Your band here sounds pretty tight. I understand your need to give a little life to the recordings, but you're definitely on the right track.

There are many threads about preamps that say a lot more than I can here. The first thing I hear that could help you out a bit is to record the rhythm instruments with a bit more power. Maybe turn the bass amp up a bit and have the bass player play with a bit more umph. The drums could use a bit of an ass kick too. The guitar player seems to have the idea.
Click to expand...
 
Classic sound is definitely what I'm after. I think I'm fighting the digital sound using my computer to record my tracks. I've considred a Neve or SSL, but I'm afraid that would break my bank at this time.

The Great River supposedly is based on the Neve. I'm also looking into the RNC compressor. I might spring for a Keeley compressor for my guitar tracks and possibly for bass. I can use the RNC for my vocals perhaps.

Any suggestions on a great compressor for some pumping bass? Do you think the RNC would do the trick?

Thanks again for the input, this is really helping!

Derek Neece


Dot said:
Derek, by the sound of your MP3 [ sweet gtr playing, BTW ] I'd think you'd be going for something more classic sounding. I know you're liking the idea of an all-in-one, but that mostly in the mid-level units - and only on a few select higher-end units that are beyond your budget. You're going to get much better performance if you go with a better individual pre than you will from a mid-level channel strip. I also think you might be overestimating what an EQ can do for you. You'd get better results focusing on mic choice, mic placement and room acoustics.

Here's a couple pres to consider...

Great River MP/ME-NV - This is going for more of a classic, vintage sound. Very versatile. Runs the spectrum of fairly clean to very ballsy depending on how you set up the input/output ratio. Stacks well over many tracks better than many other 1272/1073-based pres. I reviewed the NV-1 here.

Phoenix Audio (UK) DRS - This is not a "Neve clone". It's an original design by ex-Neve folks. It's a very modern-sounding pre. Slightly less colored than API. What sets the DRS apart is its spacious, airy valve-like sound. Another great, all-purpose pre that sits well in a mix when used over many tracks. I reviewed the DRS-2 here.
Click to expand...
 
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I just visited theListeningSessions.com and wow! I heard the Great River MP-1 in performance coupled with the Beyer 160 mic and all I can say is, I'm impressed! The guitar sounded like a track right off of AC/DC Back in Black. Nice tone!

If I can get that quality on my guitar tracks, I'l be a happy man for sure.

Dot said:
Derek, by the sound of your MP3 [ sweet gtr playing, BTW ] I'd think you'd be going for something more classic sounding. I know you're liking the idea of an all-in-one, but that mostly in the mid-level units - and only on a few select higher-end units that are beyond your budget. You're going to get much better performance if you go with a better individual pre than you will from a mid-level channel strip. I also think you might be overestimating what an EQ can do for you. You'd get better results focusing on mic choice, mic placement and room acoustics.

Here's a couple pres to consider...

Great River MP/ME-NV - This is going for more of a classic, vintage sound. Very versatile. Runs the spectrum of fairly clean to very ballsy depending on how you set up the input/output ratio. Stacks well over many tracks better than many other 1272/1073-based pres. I reviewed the NV-1 here.

Phoenix Audio (UK) DRS - This is not a "Neve clone". It's an original design by ex-Neve folks. It's a very modern-sounding pre. Slightly less colored than API. What sets the DRS apart is its spacious, airy valve-like sound. Another great, all-purpose pre that sits well in a mix when used over many tracks. I reviewed the DRS-2 here.
Click to expand...
 
Hello Dan. Have you heard of Beta Monkey drum loops? I found them on google. I'm looking for some loops that will sound particularly good with blues at this time. The samples of the Beta Monkey blues drums loops sound pretty convincing. Do you think DOD would sound this good with blues?


Derek

Updated: After giving a good further listen to the Beta Monkey drum loops, I have come to the conclusion that I think they sound perfect for what I'm looking for. Very tight sounding snare :cool:

Dot said:
Derek, if you want to put some good drum tracks together without a drummer, I'd recommend http://www.drumsondemand.com/
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Please check out "Drums on Demand" (real acoustic drum loops). I've had good success with the standard stereo format but also available in multitrack format. Real cool...you'll love em !!

Check out my sample using them (I play all parts, recorded at home on PC)
Just Google "AllSavy" and click the first link to hear "The home of the blues"
Cheers Dorien...nice playing, we should talk later.
savy@nbnet.nb.ca
 
Cool stuff allsavy. Yes, I was checking out the Multi Track volume from DOD. That looks reeally interesting. When you add the hall mic, you get the Bohnam sound happening. Plus the Multi Track volume is more dry and doesn't have the pre-added compression and fx. That's a good thing. I need to get that Multi Track for sure :D

allsavy said:
Please check out "Drums on Demand" (real acoustic drum loops). I've had good success with the standard stereo format but also available in multitrack format. Real cool...you'll love em !!

Check out my sample using them (I play all parts, recorded at home on PC)
Just Google "AllSavy" and click the first link to hear "The home of the blues"
Cheers Dorien...nice playing, we should talk later.
savy@nbnet.nb.ca
Click to expand...
 
A $35 bass? I admire your ambious goals of getting killer bass tone on such a low end bass. Good luck!
 
Actually, if you listen to the bass track on the mp3, it's not that bad to begin with IMHO. I think the the EMG-P pickups make this $35 bass sound pretty decent. Some frets buzz and the neck is screwed up. That's why I am going to replace it.

I'm in the market right now of purchasing a P-bass, G&L or Schecter Model T. The Lakland Skyline also looks interesting. Anyone have experience with these? I'm in the market to do several upgrades to my home studio including the bass.

Derek

ryanlikestorock said:
A $35 bass? I admire your ambious goals of getting killer bass tone on such a low end bass. Good luck!
Click to expand...
 
My suggestion would be to add some effects to the intruments. It sounds very good now, but a little dry. Adding some reverb and perhaps delay can many times add depth to a sound. Also works well for drums, but usually less well for bass.

I generally record dry, and then add effects during the mixdown process on the PC.

Ed
 
I too thought the guitar playing on your MP3 was very good, but I have issues with the bass (OK, I'm a bass player!). You are playing it too hard, I mean hitting the strings too hard. Hence there is a lot of attack and very little sustain, which is certainly partly down to the cheap bass but also a function of your playing; the trick with bass playing is to be gentle, let the pickups and amp do the work. There used to be an excellent diagram on the Gary Willis site explaining why this is, I've just looked but can't find it, but in essence playing more gently means you can mix the bass up higher which brings out more sustain, without it jumping out when you hit a note and reduces the need for compression. This is particularly applicable to your style of music. It will also reduce your fret buzz problem (which can be further reduced by ensuring you're plucking parallel to the body, not pushing the strings down).

On the choice of new bass, I'd strongly recommend you consider the Precision, there is a reason why they are so popular in studios, you'd need a DI box of course. The Jazz would give you a wider range of tones but you didn't list that in your possibles, maybe because of the neck?

Cheers

Garry
 
Any suggestions for a good DI box? Sansamp Bassdriver? Bass Pod Pro?

First off, thanks for the tips. Your right, I need to brush up on my bass technique. I'm primarily a guitar player/ songwriter. I don't play the bass as much as I should. Those are great pointers for improving my technique. The combination of more polished technique, a better quality bass and a nice bass compressor will work wonders I'm sure.

Jazz bass would be a good consideration as well. I'm not sure what you mean about the neck. I have very large hands, so I don't think I would have a problem. I haven't played one as of yet, but they're Fenders so I'm sure they are top notch.

I've read about the G&L 2000-L basses get a combination of P and J. I heard the worth of the G&L basses will be going up in the next 10-15 years as well. That would be nice to have.

Thanks again for the tips. I will have to save your post and review it from time to time. Great pointers for improving technique!

Derek

Garry Sharp said:
I too thought the guitar playing on your MP3 was very good, but I have issues with the bass (OK, I'm a bass player!). You are playing it too hard, I mean hitting the strings too hard. Hence there is a lot of attack and very little sustain, which is certainly partly down to the cheap bass but also a function of your playing; the trick with bass playing is to be gentle, let the pickups and amp do the work. There used to be an excellent diagram on the Gary Willis site explaining why this is, I've just looked but can't find it, but in essence playing more gently means you can mix the bass up higher which brings out more sustain, without it jumping out when you hit a note and reduces the need for compression. This is particularly applicable to your style of music. It will also reduce your fret buzz problem (which can be further reduced by ensuring you're plucking parallel to the body, not pushing the strings down).

On the choice of new bass, I'd strongly recommend you consider the Precision, there is a reason why they are so popular in studios, you'd need a DI box of course. The Jazz would give you a wider range of tones but you didn't list that in your possibles, maybe because of the neck?

Cheers

Garry
Click to expand...
 
The Jazz has a thin neck, the Precision's is wider, you'd just have to try them to see which you prefer. The Jazz offers a wider range of tones, with two single coil pick ups, which with the latest ones you can put in series to get a humbucker type tone (I have one and like it very much). Some feel that although the P offers fewer tones, what it has is better.

The G&L L2000 is also an excellent bass. It does not have P&J pickups, it has twin humbuckers (soapbars). It is also active (i.e. with an onboard pre, but passive pickups). You can set the pre amp to on, bypass or treble boost, and like the Jazz it has a very wide rnge of tones. I also have one but it lives under my bed as unlike you I have small hands and the neck is too wide for me to play the funk stuff we do now, but it is a fine rock bass. The Tribute models are the discount line, made in Korea but with the same electronics as the US made ones; I have the Premium version of the Tribute which has a swamp ash body and as I think they are about US$500 in the US they are unbelievable value for money, especially if you can get one used as the only basses which hold their value are Fenders.

The Sansamp DI is a nice box but doesn't give a full line level output, I have heard the new bass pod is nice but have never used one, personally I'd be inclined to experiment with the other pre-amp suggestions in this thread.
 
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