any recommendations for slide guitar?

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ruebarb

ruebarb

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Hi guys. I've got a Les Paul I use for most of my rock and roll, but because of style/preference, I keep the action really low, and I'm thinking of grabbing a second guitar for backups/detunings/ and so forth.

What I'd really like to do is experiment with slide guitar and textures the way a lot of British music I like does. (The Verve is one of my biggest influences) - and therefore, I'd like to grab a guit. that's better for slide playing - probably with a bit higher action, and some nice full tone - not that crappy Danelectro thin sound.

Anyone recommend what they use? I was thinking of just getting another Les Paul (maybe the double cutaway blue flake one they have) and trying that, but I'm kind of open to suggestions.

rb
 
Try looking at some of the cheaper hollow body Harmony and Silver tone guitars from the late 50's and ealy 60's. these guitars usualy have high action and decent pick ups, some times DeArmonds. And the hollow bodies will feed back with some of the overtones produced by the slide. And they can be found for less than $400 most of the time. And they are pretty cool guitars just to have around.......
 
I've always found Les Pauls style guitar's the easiest, since you can raise the bridge higher and easier. Also they have more sustain. That said, I've gotten some great slide tracks out of the neck pickup of a Tele as well.
 
slide musings

Hi Ruebarb
Think of the range you might expect to be playing in.Single coil pickups have their "sweet spot" above the 12th fret while humbuckers are hottest about an octave lower.Slide material makes a big tone difference too.I started on an acoustic using a glass bottleneck delta style but gradually have come to prefer the more massy spark plug socket.For tunings try G (D G D G B D) and "DADGAD",probably the two most used slide tunings.
regards
Tom
 
In the early sixties, Gibson owned the Epiphone trade name and produced a series of solid-body guitars in the Kalamazoo factory under the Epiphone name which were basically a Les Paul with 'Epiphone' written on them.

It seems to me that slide would not require a mega-distortion type of overdrive, so I suggest you try and find an Epiphone Coronet from that period.

The one you are looking for has three-on-a-side tuners and a double-cutaway. I believe it would be from about 1961 to 1964.
Around about 1964/1965 they changed the headstock design to six-on-side like a Strat (called the Batwing 'cos of a little sticking out piece on the opposite side to the tuners) and the necks are thinner and they don't sound so good (to my humble ears)


A nice one can be had for a reasonable price (less than $1,000).

It will be the sonic equivalent of an early sixties, double-cut L.P. Junior - i.e. one P-90 pickup screwed straight to the top of a solid chunk of mahogany, with a pretty wide, flat neck (although not as wide/flat as the Les Paul's from the same period).

If you prefer a mini-humbucking pickup, try to find an Epiphone Crestwood from the same period. The Custom had two pickups and oval inlays - the Deluxe had three pickups and rectangular inlays. They are more expensive, although still not prohibitive.

... and with a nice tube amp it will sound like the slide guitar that god made for himself.

One really cool thing is that guys who know about vintage guitars will recognize you as a man of considerable taste - everyone else will just go 'Man, that guitar sounds great' and not realize they are listening to a wolf in sheep's clothing.

As for tunings, I would recommend an open D tuning (or open E) for electric rock/bluesy stuff.

D A D F# A D - bottom to top, or
E B E G# B E

or the suggested open G that Tom recommends for more acoustic country-blues (which I would learn first if I was going to do it again, as it is much more useful for fingerpicking)

Have fun,

foo

[Edited by foo on 10-03-2000 at 17:25]
 
You can't ever go wrong with a lap. If you ever see one, buy it, they are usually reasonbly priced. Next choice would be a dobro - expensive. After that - a strat.
 
It only makes sense that the humbucking style pickups would give you the sustain you're looking for with slide, but I recently saw Little Feat, and not so recently Bonnie Raitt, who both played Strats, which sustained all day! Anybody got any ideas what kind of setup they use?

Twist
 
Bonnie Rait

I saw her live in a college hall in Carbondale Ill in 1972.She was playing the same axe as she still does today,a custom 5/8 Strat with a glass bottleneck into a Twin.Most blues-slide people play Strats because that is almost the "official" guitar for blues.However,by contrast,the two most renowned modern slidists were Duane Allman and Johnny Winter,who both used humbuckers (Les Paul for Duane and I think an SG for Winter).
Tom
 
Yeah, nothing sounds like a strat but a strat.

I saw johnny winter several times during the eighties, and he was playing a Flying Vee and something I didn't recognize that had the tuners down below the bridge.

Twist
 
Johnny's guitar of choice for a long time has been a Gibson Firebird - I've seen him with both a I (one pickup mounted near the bridge) and a III (two pickups, dot inlays).

The mini-humbuckers on the early sixties (reverse body, neck-through construction) Firebird are pretty bright and ballsy.

Just like the identical pickups on the Epiphone Crestwoods from the same period. Problem is the Firebird will run you $2,500+, the Crestwood about $1,000.

I heard that recently Bonnie has been using a Jim Kelly combo amp with 2 x 10" speakers. She has great tone - maybe a touch of compression in there somewhere, too. Anyone know for sure?

foo
 
Epiphone

Hey Foo,
I've got an Epiphone Genesis I picked up for $125 about 15 years ago. Whats your assessment of that guitar? It's a lot like a les paul.

Twist
 
hey twist -
You saw a master going thru a stieberg phase - I think he made it back O.K. No headstock on those pricks either.
 
I mean Stienberger.

How could this thread go on so long - without the mention of Ry Cooder, Lowell George, David Lindley or Joe Walsh?
 
Epiphone Genesis

Unfortunately, I've never heard of this particular Epiphone model.

Pretty much all Epiphones from 1970 or so to the early/mid-'90s were made in Japan (and maybe Korea, too)

They were made under licence by both Aria and Samick.

If it was one of a very few made by Gibson in the USA during those years, it will have an 8-digit serial number impressed into the back of the headstock.

If it has such a number, post it here and I'll be able to tell you the date it was made, and where it was made.

As a non-US made guitar, it almost certainly has limited collector value (although there are some non-US guitars - not Epiphones - which are very valuable), so it's value is completely based on it's functionality.

Sorry I have no more info on your guitar.

foo
 
Daddy-O is on the right track if you want to sound like The Verve. A semi-hollow body like one of the Gibson ES series will get you started.

Digression:
IMHO 'A Storm In Heaven' is the best guitar based record of the 90’s! But, this is really the only Verve CD where the guitarist got his way.

Steve Howe of Yes also did a lot of spacey slide guitar and pedal steel work – plus a whole lot of other incredible stuff. Check out 'The Yes Album', 'Close To the Edge', 'Fragile', etc. (circa early 70’s)

And if you agree that 'A Storm In Heaven' is The Verve’s best, you might also like some of the Cocteau Twins (80s’ & 90’s). Check out 'Heaven Or Las Vegas' and 'Four Calendar Cafe' – liquid dreamlike guitarscapes.
 
do you guys have much knowledge on blues slide ?the originators?what about muddy waters playing slide through a tele?what about elmore james.i am not putting down the "british"slide guitars,or the new school of rock n roll or even "white boy blues"but for several years out of all the listening and all the hours putting into research,it still seems that compared to the originals,all else pales in comparison,hey it is unfortunate that lowell george and duane allman are no longer with us,because these were cats that were taking that slide thing to another level.the sweet thing with bonnie raitt is that you can certainly hear lowell george's influence in her playing,yet original in her own rite.the thing about open tunings is that aside from you feeling like you are limited to specific keys and chords,and notes,but even worse is that people make comments like "woah is that a jimmy page/zeppelin song?"where than i sound like a blues snob purist saying that no,it's a sonny terry & brownie mcghee .or have you guys ever heard of hound dog taylor?man check out that overdriven blues!!there is the nastiest slide electric guitar tone i have evr heard on "give me back my wig".so ,i apologize for sounding like some blues purist snob,and i don't ever mean to insult or be condescending,it is just that there is soooooo much out there as far as slide guitar playing,that to think that these young guys from britain created this style of guitar playing would give so much discredit to our predecessors.but yeah,i forget who was talking about the "hot spot"with single coil versus double coil,but that is totally true,i used to play with a blues harp player for about 13 years in s.f. named big bones,i played as a duo and with a full electric band,and most important factor is that you got different guitars for different styles and different jobs,i was a strat player,and it is a perfect guitar for the big city electric blues,but as far as action,i have never found a guitar worthwhile that you couldn't soup up the action on,the key is to have that high enough to get clear ringing notes for sustain,yet enlow enough to chunk out some serious rhythm.but hands down for electric or acoustic is an old f-hole hollow body with one of those old gibson bridges,that would raise up?with an old p-90 pickup.my friend had a 1943 gibson f-hole thing ,man what a dream!!but the thing was so expensive,you never want to play it out,what's the point?so second to that electric blues,semi-hollow bodies with the stop tailpiece,and preferably ,still p-90's,they have a high output and are single coiled,some are really low noise,as always ,you gotta watch the feedback with hollow bodies,but you spend enough time performing and playing,jamming,you find your"hot spot"your portal into the "slide zone".but yeah check out the "old heads" you might find every single slide lick ever written,played all the way back to the 30's.ever heard of son house?it's amazing that at this day and age with all the technology out there how much a good tone and a serious simplistic feel can surpass all else.i have been playing a standard tele through a vox cambridge 30 (one 12ax7 in the pre amp)and i was amazed,cause it had been so long,the tone i got from playing electric slide!i had forgotten how much fun it was.so test everything out,you'll agree,there is so much out there available,that you really never know.
 
Of course there are/where many great blues slide guitarist, who were influenced by other guitarist, who were influenced by still others before them, etc, etc, etc. But, ruebarb said he was into The Verve. Doesn‘t suggesting an appropriate instrument and closely related musical examples seem reasonable? According to your philosophy, shouldn’t we refer him back to the first caveman beating rocks with sticks?
 
Clarification:
I want it to be clear that I’m not equating blues slide guitarist with cavemen (sometimes folks can go off). I just don’t think it’s always necessary to trace everything back to the roots.
 
Dear Mojovoodoo,

I am somewhat insulted that you would presume to chide me about 'do I know anything about blues slide' when you don't know anything about me.

I answered a specific question about a specific type of sound the questioner was looking for.

I have been playing guitar since 1966, many of those years professionally.

My college degree is in music (guitar).

The acoustic fingerstyle/slide that I do is done on my 1928 National Tricone (using the National fingerpicks that came with the guitar in 1928).
The electric slide that I do is done on my 1961 Les Paul Special through my 1966 Fender Vibrolux Reverb.

I live in Mississippi.

I have driven down Highway 61 listening to Robert Johnson(and the others you mention and some you didn't) many times.

I have been on the road hitchhiking with $26 in my pocket and over 1000 miles to go in the winter.

I have been in love with another man's wife. He was my friend.

Yes, I know all about the blues.

Any questions, asshole?

foo

[Edited by foo on 10-25-2000 at 17:37]
 
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