antares vocal producer

  • Thread starter Thread starter ad0lescnts
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While I agree with Shailat and Bear about giving the client exactly what they want... and what they are capable of...

There also comes a time where production is involved... maybe the producer is the one saying... use Autotune because this singer tends to lose their emotion the more you force them to sit and retake and retake and retake and retake and retake.

Sure you'll get it right... but it will sound like crap because the singer will be so worn out and will be trying soooo hard to hit the pitch that their delivery will suck.

Yes, its the engineer's job to make things clean, transparent and pleasurable to the client... but regardless, their are times when the autotune will in fact do the trick.

If that were not the case... it would NOT be used in the "big boys" studios as much as it is.

Granted we all have our feelings about it... and we all have our ideals about how to best treat our profession... BUT bottom line is I might think one thing, you might think another... but BOTH sides are reality. They both happen... from the garage studio alllll the way up to the ones paying thousands of dollars an hour.

For me... I'll do just as the client wants... but if they don't care... I use the autotune... because 9 times out of 10 we will get more solid delivery of emotion and sincerity on the takes (which I believe makes for a better song - and remember I don't set my unit up so that is making corrections all over the place) with less trauma to that same client.

If they are concerned about coloration etc... then CERTAINLY I will listen to them (although ones that are THAT concerned with it probably are not in my studio when they could drive into Chicago and have one of the big big big boys do it).

Maybe in Canada its different, but from where I sit I am less than 4 hours to some of the biggest baddest studios in the Midwest (Minneapolis, Kansas City, Chicago, St. Louis, Milwaukee) etc.

Velvet Elvis
 
You're right Vel.... there's the "ideal" which I certainly 'TRY' to subscribe to as much as possible (ie, track it right, minimal EQ, no need for Autotunes or Exciters....!), and then there's the practicalities of everyday working requirements.... which sometimes DO require the use of these items.

Used well, these tools can be very useful in making the engineer's life easier... but used improperly, they tend to make things far worse!
 
Bear,

You reminded me of something I just had to share...

I too try to track correctly (even though it may sound like I don't)...

In my bands project (going to national release in two months!!!) I tried very hard to get a specific kick drum sound. It sounded great during tracking... zero EQ... just enough compression/limiting to tame the track levels on tape... checked, checked and rechecked placement etc... then during mixdown, I got bored and hit the eq switch and started twisting knobs... months of working on things... I'd twist a little more here and there... finally a few weeks ago... just for kicks... I turned the EQ switch back off... HOLY CRAP!! it sounded awesome :) I had it right the first time... have to learn to quit reaching for the eq for lack of better things to do!.

Hehehehe....

Velvet Elvis
 
Shailat said:


We disscussed this before here at the BBS but you might have missed it.
>>>>>>
If I was to answer them "Hey dont worry...nobody can hear the difference", I wouyld either get fired or punched in the face or simply told the truth.
>>>>>>
Many of the cilents I work with DO care and wont take "nobody can hear it" or "hey the song still grooves so leave it" as an answer
.>>>>>>>
I have no doubt that Autotune can come in as a usefull tool but
when a singer CAN fix their line they Should ! and not resort to autotune which should be a solution for those that simply cant.
Click to expand...

I deleted some of your post, Shailot, but I think I left the "jist" of what your where saying.
And in reply, I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which is: that autotune IS NOW being used, and that even the best ears may not catch it (I'm talking used sparingly and with "proper, educated use."). That was my point, that I believe it IS slipping by many. I've used it on singers, and on playback, and they didn't even know it themselves....and give me credit for doing this on 'good' singers now too...ehem..ehem..

Let me explain briefly my background, so you know where I am coming from.
I graduated from Berklee in '78, and have worked in several studios, generally being the head engineer, for a period of about 10 years....basically thru the 80's. It was my only source of income at that time. I used only wide format tape machines (1" eight track and/or 2" 16/24 track machines), and have a good working knowledge of other PRO quality stuff. However, I really have all my experience professionally before the ADAT revolution. During the 90's I went into another business (sailboat technician), and have only done "home" sessions since then...with the infrequent paying customers, since my setup is out of the house (all DAW, mostly at this point...but with a healthy rack of stuff too). Thus, my personal experience with top of the line equipment in the last 10 years is not nearly as on par as it was back when. I probably have engineered hundreds and hundreds of paying sessions, and therefore feel I have a feel for customer relations etc. ...and possibly a set or well worn ears too.
Also, I think Velvet hit on a very big point. Many times, I have had great takes on the first...maybe second pass. The levels may have been really screwy, a clam here or there, but the take was WAY the best. Autotune would have been a life saver back then, but it is to me now although. (same with computers too!;) )

so...although not really a "pro" now...I feel I have "been there, done that"..and I DO understand what you are saying. My stuff at home may not really compare favorably with current stuff, but that isn't that much a big deal for me now, as I'm not trying to be a rock star anymore....or even a "Roger Nichols". But, I think that many people are really trying to pat themselves on the back (I suppose like I am doing in this thread:rolleyes: ), and insist on hearing things that they are not....like the coloration of autotune. Take away the A/B comparision, put the final result in a mix, and I think the grips aren't really justified much of the time. THAT is what bugs me. People just say; "argh...autotune...turn it off...I hate it...it colors everything". I don't subscribe to that belief. ..and this statement can be used in many contexts also in modern recording, imo.

anywazz...if your read all the above crap-o-la...thanks alot for the time, and I realize I haven't answered some of your other responses, but felt they ended up getting answered one way or another anyway.
Peace.
 
In the "old" days....when autotune wasnt around, We used a harmonizer. We would basicly sample the line and pitch shift it.
It was terrible......the color was extremly noticeable..I still flinch when I hear old cd's I did with those corrections....
No question that todays autotune brings it a lot closer and does a much better job, but I'm still disapointed in the results.

But with the way I sing...I'd use autotune on my own vocals.
I can barely listen to my voice on my answer machine.......
 
Dupe the track... apply the Autotune to the 2nd track... comp the parts you want!
 
Shailat said:
In the "old" days....when autotune wasnt around, We used a harmonizer. We would basicly sample the line and pitch shift it.
It was terrible......the color was extremly noticeable..I still flinch when I hear old cd's I did with those corrections....
Click to expand...

shoot...in the "old" days for me...well...the "mid" days...every vocal had the Eventide on them. Something that was just "too cool" back then. The Eventide we had (I can't even remember the number now...maybe the 910?) in one studio drew an amazing amount of sessions just because of that one piece of equipment. We had 1176's, La2a's, etc....but nobody really paid much notice to them. They seemed to be more for "us"...the engineers. But the Harmonizer went on everything from bass to gtr to vocals.... it was really awful....looking back now. We'd 'always' play the Donald Duck trick in the headphones, and that seemed to keep things in a good mood.
 
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