Another Metal Mix

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Harvey Gerst

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I'm pretty happy with the sound of the drums on the last metal band I recorded (although the band wanted a lot squashing on everything during the mix and mastering sessions). I think I've finally achieved a good metal drum sound with the last two bands I did.

The band is Anatomy of Deception:
 

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All my comments come with 2 caveats: I'm listening through headphones at work, and I'm not a heavy metal guy--just a rock and roll guy--so I don't know what artists and/or listeners like in this sound.

I thought the drums sounded good, but I found my self wanting more of them. As big and thunderous as their sound was, that sound was getting lost a bit under the guitars. And I know you asked about the drums, but the guitars sounded really sizzly and di/transistor-ish. (Like I said--that could be exactly what the genre demands--and I have no business critiquing it!)

We'll see what some metal afficianados have to say...
 
Guitars are fizzy in the intro and change dynamic when the vocals come in. ??? then get fizzy agian at about 1:00 ???

Maybe it just my ears.

then get fizzy agian.

anyone else hear this?

Kinda of muddy. over all minus the guitar fizz.


But i am fighting the fizzy guitar fight at the moment myself so i can offer nothing in the way of a fix other then it just sounds fizzy.

Drums sound buried under the guitars. vocals could stand to be a tad more in the face.

Crazy Song. I love and hate this style of metal. Woulda been a fun project.
 
I can't offer much in the way of experience with this type of music, either, but my ears and musical mind were telling me that there was something missing. The only thing I can relate it to is possibly something totally and completely different, but I'll take the risk.

I recently listened to a song by Beneath The Massacre, and was pretty intrigued at the choices made in the mix. The snare is all but completely buried, the high-end of the drums was also buried, yet the kick seemed to be smashing my face in an all-out assault. The guitars dominated the sound stage by a large margin.

Here's the song I listened to

I hate that sound. I makes no musical sense whatsoever - yet... People seem to somehow connect to it.

The sound that I can connect to is most of what Testament records. I don't really *like* their music, per-say, but it connects with me on some level.

Here's an example of (what may or may not be) a similar music style, but drastically different mixing methods.

Wow... I've digressed a lot. Not entirely sure where I was going with all that... But..

Your mix sounded much different than either of those. Guitars sounded really fizzy, and the drums sounded too organic / natural to me. I don't know of any metal that has natural-sounding drums (again, apply salt liberally, I don't usually listen to this type of music). Metal drums seem to be processed to the hilt, usually.

It's always interesting hearing different people's take on different musical styles.

I should press delete on this comment, but I'm gonna press submit instead. :laughings: (shoots himself in the head with a big rubber bullet)
 
Sounds pretty good. The singer kind of sounds like System of a Down's singer. The whole thing sounds a bit roomy, but it's okay. I'd say bring the vocals up a bit more.
 
In response to Poetic, there is a little problem with this kind of music that might help you understand why it can be mixed so differently. The super ultra, supposedly elite, uber geeks who listen to metal have created many classifications and sub-genres for slightly different types of metal.

You posted a technical death metal video and a heavy metal video which are two different classifications of music. Just to to give you an idea of how stupid people are I'll give you as many as I can think up off the top of my head.

Death Metal, Black Metal, Grind core, Crust, Gore grind, Thrash, Death Grind, Brutal Death Metal, Barbaric Viking Metal, etc.

It's pretty stupid and I don't think there is a standard formula to apply to ever sub-genre that's invented. Alot of times you can have several different albums from the same bands and they sound like each one used a different mixing style.

To Hervey Gerst, it sounds a little muddy, but like you're off to a good start. Just keep experimenting and I'm sure it'll come out fine.
 
In my opinion, it's the guitar sound that's hampering this one. They do sound kind of muddy. The other band you recorded was using the Sansamp AC3 and the guitar sound was beautiful. The drums here sound pretty good in my opinion, although the kick could have some more click to it. Overall, the track sounds very compressed. But if it makes the band happy and they pay your cheque, that's cool......;)
 
joeym said:
But if it makes the band happy and they pay your cheque, that's cool......;)
Click to expand...
They paid with cash and they're "very" happy with the final product. They had been to several studios in the area and were disappointed each time.
 
It might sound good, if you haven't done it, to put everything through a pair of tube compressors.

I would like to hear a bigger sound. Left to right, up to down, the whole thing sounds very small to me.
 
i can almost guarantee, that you killed your bigger drum sound during mastering, when you took all the great transients and snare strikes and kick impact, and brought it down with brickwall limiting.


if the band wants that, then you gave them what they wanted.
 
Yup, exactly. Mastering (squashing the crap out of it) killed it for me.
 
you know what you could try doing....?
(i know it's after the fact, but for future reference)

when you know the band is going to want the final product mastered heavy handed, and you're going to do it..


you can strap a limiter across the mix 2 buss.

mix into it, applying your typical processing per track.

fix your compression, and eq, to give you the SMACK, impact, and presence you want on your drums..
then when you mixdown your 'premastered' pair, take it off the mix buss.

bounce it down to stereo-2 track, then take that file, and master it.

it takes some time to get good at it, but you'll find, assuming all your peak levels during mixing, were low enough to give you plenty of headroom for MASTERING, you'll find that even as you squish with MB and brickwall, the drums will come back into focus similarly to what you had at mixdown.
 
Are those bass drops I hear? :laughings: :laughings: :laughings:


Those kick drums sound too natural for metal. Too much boxy midrange. You need to scoop some low mids from the kick tracks. Mid-scoops aren't only for guitars in metal. The drums also sound left-heavy. The snare and most of the tom action is leaning left. Really, everything with the kit sounds too raw and natural. The snare and toms sound like they were mic'd and nothing else was done. They're kind of flat and lifeless. You need bigger than life sounds from the kit on this kind of stuff. EQ the toms for more presence and body. The snare needs some sizzle. Compression and broad boosts in the super highs can help with that. The snare there, but it's a little top-head heavy. You've got the kit sitting just right in the mix though. The kicks are audible and the snare pounds away. That's half the battle right there. Most people in this genre fuck that all up and drown everything in guitars.

The guitars and bass are a mash of mud, and combined with the cheap sounding vocals, it sounds very cheap. The vocals have no air or clarity. I don't expect to understand what's being said, but the vocals have to at least sound good and sit in space. Not that excessive sibilance is good, but there's not even a hint of an "ssss" or a plosive anywhere in that vocal track.

It sounds like everything is tracked well though, so it can be fixed. Use those highfalutin monitors of yours that no one can afford. :D
 
Yup, 808 bass drops - at the band's request.

Lotsa good stuff there, Greg.

I just got back from a four day vacation at Cypress Springs, so lemme digest all this, but your comments hit a lot of nails home for me on this song.

And the same for Gonzo's comments.
 
I don't mean to sound critical because I realise that you have 1000x more experience than me in this field but as a long time metal fan and listener I just had to say that the mix didn't sit well with me. I can't be sure whether this is because of the artists requests or your own metal experimentation the entire kit sounded WAY too organic and didn't suit the genre at all.

Apart from the fact that in most metal mixes the Kick and Toms are all triggered the toms didn't pack the necessary punch and the snare and the kick were both thoroughly buried. Perhaps a bit more processing was needed on the toms and just fiddle around with the EQ on the kick drum finding that sweet spot which sits at the front of every tech death metal mix ever recorded.

Thats my 2 cents, Once again I don't claim to be a professional at all but that is what I heard and I hear a lot of this kind of music. (I'm a metal drummer ;) )
 
No, you're absolutely right. That's why I just bought Protools for the small studio and I'll be able to use samples for the kick and snare.
 
Sorry harvey, the most modern metal I listen to is TOOL so I'm no help at all. Add to that my general dislike for scream vocals, (I mean, they make me smile or even laugh out loud but I don't think thta's the required response), I can only offer vague suggestions:
Most Modern Metal uses a kick drum that sounds like a finger flicking the foil seal on a can of Milo (insert any dry drink powder that is sold in a can with a resealable lid & a foil inner seal) - all click & no boom.
The setero field does seem narrow.
If the band love it then you've done your job. I'd fiddle a bit more to demonstrate what can be done just for comparison's sake.
 
The vocals sound great!

If that is the guitar sound they like, it's a shame but that's what they want.

I agree that the drums are fantastic, but way too natural for metal. Not bright enough in general, but the drums have more mids than the guitars do.

For the kick and toms, I tend to suck out around 800-900hz ( a lot!) and add a ton of high shelf at 8k.

The trick to surviving the mastering process is to make everything as in-your-face as possible. If you suck all the mids out of the guitars, that doesn't happen. But it sounds like that is the sound they gave you from some god-awful digitech something-or-other.

I've found with guitars, if you make the sound coming out of the amp darker and then brighten it in the mix, the highs tend to be smoother and less harsh.

I'm rambling, sorry. I do almost nothing but metal and I sometimes have a hard time getting my vocals as good as these.
 
I love it... but it sounds very Lo-res.

Not knowing this style very well... is there supposed to be no "air". Surely you want the fans to dial in the bass?
 
As I said, I think going to Protools for the mixdown will solve a lot of problems for me.
 
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