Another A/B with the ECM8000

G

Guardian

New member
So yah, see whatcha think..I don't wanna give anything away..and NO CHEATING! Don't go normalizing a silent part and trying to see which has the lower self noise..just listen and see which sounds better! :)

One is a (pair)Neumann TLM103, one is an (pair)ECM8000..we also tried a Rode NT1000 for kicks, but it was practically identical to the TLM, except he wanted the Neumann because of brand recognition I think..we used the TLM on 2/3 tracks, but the 1 track, is all ECM.

Mackie 32*8 pre's, 100ft horizon cables <my snake box is shitted out>, no EQ, no reverb, a little compression on one, 20bit/48khz recording.




--Sal
 
hey,

why do people insist on comparing a $700 mic to a $35 mic?

you essentially get what you pay for and the Neumann will sound better everytime , in every situation(well in every situation I've heard so far, the ecm has been the worse sounding alternative)

And why did you only compress one? Are you trying to trick our ears?

Version a sounded more natural and detailed. To my ears, B sounded very rough-wooly in comparison. It might be a good mic for a particular/wierd effect though.

Anyhow, I am going to go with my first impressions. A is the more expensive mic and B is the cheap mic.

BTW, I cheated. My genx6 does not lie to me.
 
B is the ECM, hence the crazy ass string noise and lack of body. I think both are usable though, but I'd prefer the Neumanns for sure. Of course in a mix there could certainly be a situation in which the ECM sound was more desirable.

Slackmaster 2000
 
yeah...I think there are too many variables to just say..."hey, which mic was which?" A, sounded better to me...not as full sounding as B, but more detailed...so A was the Nueman, I'm guessing. The guitar playing quality kept me thinking about the potential recording pitfalls that might be consistant with the playing...but that's just me. The Mackie and the 103 should be able to deliver fantastic sounds, but I think a kick ass Taylor with some kick ass playing would help to show off the mic qualities. I can make a $50 guitar thru a pile of effects sound just as oblivious as a Les Paul in the end...
However, it appears the Behringers are a fairly decent mic too.

thanks for the comparsions, and efforts, btw.
 
Heh

Guess what? A was the Behringer ECM8000's, and B was the Neumann TLM103's :)

And I compressed both, but A was slightly more compressed, I did -13db 3-1, and B was -8db 3-1.

:)))))))))))

That's why I put these up! I didn't think anyone would believe a $35 mic sounded better than an $800 mic <they're the monolith versions, ooh pretty>.

So it just goes to show ya, the right mic for the right instrument/job, song, etc..I woulda waited longer, but oh well :P I wonder what Harvey thinks..I'm sure he woulda nailed it.


The guy's guitar isn't bad..he has a weird way of playing..im not sure what kind of guitar it is..maybe a Gibson? He wants a Taylor, I know that..I don't know guitars..



--Sal
 
3rd

Here's a quick snip of the 3rd, of just the Neumann's..I liked them better on this, as they gave it more of an edgy/steely/brassy sound.



--Sal

ok tired now, sleep is fun.
 
well...whoop my bootie!:D A good reason why I think these mic clip comparisions on an MP3 are such a shootout with guessing....and especially not knowing how they are really recorded. And this third clip is just the 103's?...now I am confused with your post...I thought it was one of the two choices in your first post.

sounds like the 8000's are worth the $$

thanks again.
 
I too liked the A sound better, and to me this illuminates the difference in performance between a large diaphram cardioid and a omni condenser. I hear the warm thickness of the LD as oposed to the no proximity effect of the omni.

For kicks, try the same test using a vocal track and let's see who prefers what...

Great stuff, thanks for posting it!
 
Ok,

A sounded really good, and for this purpose would probably be the better choice.

Still , my genx6 dont lie to me. Your compression lied to me.

If I may ask, why would you compress one more than the other?
 
CyanJaguar said:
hey,
why do people insist on comparing a $700 mic to a $35 mic?
Click to expand...
CJ, if thru judicial placement, proper EQ-ing, and good recording techniques, you are able to achieve a sound from a less expensive mic that would come close to rivaling a much more expensive mic, then the comparison is justified. Additionally, nearly everyone here is familiar with the sound from the TLM's, it provides a good benchmark from wich to judge other mics. Thats why we compare the ECM's to the TLM's.
 
Nice :) Your the first person to completely have people fooled in an A/B comparison! I thought that string noise was a dead giveaway! Haha, very cool.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Re: Heh

Guardian said:
Guess what? A was the Behringer ECM8000's, and B was the Neumann TLM103's :)

And I compressed both, but A was slightly more compressed, I did -13db 3-1, and B was -8db 3-1.

So it just goes to show ya, the right mic for the right instrument/job, song, etc..I woulda waited longer, but oh well :P I wonder what Harvey thinks..I'm sure he woulda nailed it.

--Sal
Click to expand...
I would have guessed "a" as the behringers, but only because of the lack of fret noise and bass buildup that I usually hear with the TLM103 (as it sounded on "b"). The TLM-103 is very tricky to place "exactly right" on some acoustic guitars.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd have placed the ECMs where you did, either. Sounds like they were out in front of the guitar, whereas I'd have placed them almost directly above the guitar, pointing down, to pick up a little more top end and reduce some of the bass.

I would have probably blown it on your third clip.
 
fun stuff

Woo, I fooled people :P Kinda reminds me of that article I read of Recording Engineer guy's Davisound Pre-Amp, getting a better review with a higher pricetag, etc, etc.


Yep, I mic'd everything from the same position, except I had the Behringers about 3" away and the Neumann's about 4, because I am paranoid about them getting broken :)

I did the typical guitar mic'ing deal, 12th fret and bridge.

I compressed one more than the other because the playing was more uneven on one than the other.

oh, and I just put up the 'c' thing to hear the TLM on a different style of playing

--Sal
 
My God, I think I'm getting the hang of this. I guessed the b clip was the Neumann, since it sounded fuller. But the really interesting question is: Which sounded the best?

I'd say it depends on the song you are recording it to. If the guitar was to be alone with just some vocals, I would have preferred the Neumann, but in a more dense mix with drums, bass and other stuff, I would have used the Behringers. They sounded thinner and would cut through more.

And now I'm convinced I'm getting a pair.

Thanks for the post, Guardian!

/Henrik
 
Re: fun stuff

Guardian said:
Yep, I mic'd everything from the same position, except I had the Behringers about 3" away and the Neumann's about 4, because I am paranoid about them getting broken :)

I did the typical guitar mic'ing deal, 12th fret and bridge.

--Sal
Click to expand...
Yup, that's exactly what it sounded like to me. I'd have pulled them further back and up higher, but your samples sounded very cool, so I'da just told me to shut up if it was my session. :)
 
hehe

Haha, I never tell anyone to shut up..I'd have tried it and compared, cuz I'm cool like that :P Whatever the artist is happy with..I mean, he wanted the Neumanns in there, which is why we used them on 2/3 of the tracks, but I was able to get my way with the ECM's on the first track..even tho I wanna redo them all, because he didn't play so hot..but it's only for a quickie demo to get him booked as an opener for a show..so it might not matter if things are perfect

--Sal
 
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