Another 2 hour mix...

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sonusman

sonusman

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Different client. Will not grace them with a link for this crap, although, this is by and far the best song they tracked. Cannot account for the performances. Most of their 115 hours to record and mix 10 songs was in tracking.

http:


Interesting note. This is only 4 mics on the drum kit. Kick, snare, and stereo overheads. Now if the guy could just play them properly, all would have been well.

Ed
 
No Soul

You're right. That band suxors. There is absolutely no soul to that music. Yawn.....

The drums sound good with the four mikes. The drummer only hit his toms once during the song and that was at the end. It wasn't much but it sounds like you captured the whole kit well. What kind of mikes did you use?

The only thing about this song that bothered me (besides the music) was the vocals. Something wasn't quite right about them that I can't put my finger on. Almost sounded like he was just using a cheapo mike with zero processing.

Off topic:
I have been reading this BBS for quite some time now but have never bothered to get an ID until today. I hope you guys don't mind if I join in on these threads.
 
There are actually a few "rolls" in the song, but I downplayed them because of "performance issues".....:( The end roll turned out okay though, so I turned them up a bit.

A pair of AT 4033's to a Focusrite Red preamp to a Behringer Composer (for the Peak Limiting...about 3dB of limiting at most) and all Monster Studio Pro and Studio Link cable to ADAT XT 20's for overheads.

AKG 414 to Oram MWS with a low cut filter set to around 80Hz and a little boost at 8KHz (maybe 2dB) to a Drawmer MX 30 (Peak Limiter, again no more than 2 or 3dB of limiting) with all Monster cable for the snare.

EV RE27 n/d to Oram MWS with a tad of 200Hz cut, and 80Hz boosted, and 4KHz boosted (about 2dB of cut on 200, and about 1dB of boost on 80Hz and 4KHz) with all Monster cable for the kick.

A tad of low end roll off at 80Hz on the overheads and a 2dB boost of 12KHz on the snare was the only eq used at mix.

Lexicon LXP 15 on a small room setting with 32meter room, 800ms decay, 30ms pre-delay, 5KHz high cut was used over the snare and just a hair on the kick.

The vocals are a ADK TC 51 tube mic to an Oram MWS with a low cut filter set at 80Hz, and a 2dB cut at 700Hz to a Drawmer 1960 tube compressor and all Monster cable again. At mix, a tad of a cut at 7KHz, maybe 1dB. Same reverb as the drums. The singer didn't wanted a heavily effected sound for this one. Oh, I also used about 2 or 3dB of compression at mix via a Behringer Composer. I think the sound is "reasonable" but not very exciting.

I don't think the vocal performance was all that hot. Not that he had a hot band playing behind him or anything.....;)

I almost lost my job over this band. Billed 115 hours, but actually probably worked about 140 hours over 4 weeks on this crap. Even an immortal like me has his limits!!! ;) These guys are gonna "get signed" and "tour" after they get "radio play" with this release. Remember, this is probably the best performance overall.....:rolleyes:

Ed
 
Is it okay if I just feel sorry for them? That's sad. I would suppose they intend on keeping their day jobs. I've done more inspiring recordings with a group in a living room with an old Tapco mixer and a two track cassette deck.


"Off topic:
I have been reading this BBS for quite some time now but have never bothered to get an ID until today. I hope you guys don't mind if I join in on these threads."

I'm sorry but Ed here would like you to remain non-responsive to any threads for another 7 or 8 months. Sorry, but that's Ed's rules.

Hahahahhhhahahaha...gotcha. What took you so long Dorker? That's a hell of a name to pick.
 
If this was anybody else, it would be absolutely fantastic. but you being sonusman does not come with disadvantages. Everybody holds you to the highest standards.

I liked the ADK TC 51 vocals, and the space you created with the lxp-15 reverb.

Comparing the mix to a "its been a while by staind" reveals that its a little bit lacking in volume, especially the bass and kick.

I actually liked the tune and the singing.

peace.
 
ps.

how did you say the oram compares to the symetrix again?

I dont hear that much difference.


I must say, for two hours of mixing, you are a freaking genius.
 
I think the genius lies in the tracking.....repeat after me class , A Well Tracked Song Practically Mixes Itself....say it again.....

easier said than done......
 
well, had a listen... and the song is not all that bad.... well engineer definately. :)

admit it shoulded a little dull before the e.gtr comes in, mainly due to the acoustic guitar playing. maybe if there is some synth/string will make this song sounds better....

guys, if the drummer is not that happening, wouldn't it be better to use a drum machine? I mean recording drum is no easy task.... unless you have a great drummer, I would choose to use programmed drum tracks anytime. a lot cheaper too as it saves studio time.... :)
 
Cyan, this song hasn't been mastered yet. You don't hear much difference because you haven't used it side by side on the same performance. The Oram is a very highly touted piece. It made me quit using the Pro MP for the most part....;)

Leeking. Drum machines? Oh my.......I would rather track a horrible drummer than listen to a stale old drum machine. Plus in this case, the drummer in this band paid his share of recording cost's. If the drummer decides what he is doing is good enough, well, who am I to argue (even though in my mind, I DO!!!). But, a drum machine is NO option for a CD that is going to be sold by a band unless they just don't care about what their stuff sounds like. I have heard excellent programming on drum machines, and for something like disco, house, trance, etc.....fine. But for music like this, a drum machine would be totally unappropriate. For my own music (nope, it will be awhile before I ever post any of that...) I ONLY use drum machines to work up arrangements and get scatch tracks on tape for the REAL drummer (sometimes me...I am not great on drums, but I can keep time....) to play to. If the song is appropriate for it, maybe some loops included with real drums, or in parts where a loop would sound good. But NEVER a whole drum machine part doing all the drums. That is disgraceful to my ears!

monty. Please don't feel sorry for them. It would be lost upon them! Really! Okay, in the spirit of being fair, the bass player and lead singer know that the rest of the band sucks! They were the two who spent the least time recording their parts. Oh, and I have a 1 year "no response" rule now....;)

Ed
 
yup.

Insipid teenage angst....If they are pretty boys it's just the kind of stuff that could make the charts (unfortunately)!

Rusty K
 
sonusman, I truly admired how you recorded & mixed the band!
Since I'm not into syrupy vocals and songs, I still listened basically
to learn your recording techniques! Clean and clear.Nuthin fancy,
yet handled excellently.

1 of my prob areas is handling vocalists (which is why most of my music is instrumental),but wondered why I didn't hear any 'Verbs
on the lead vocals, except, I think at the 1st chorus ..."No,No,No...." I detected a small amount and that was it. It could be that I'm listening with these cheap-@ss headphones, but was there any kind of 'Verb used on the Lead voc's!!?? Or did you just wanted it to be dry!!?? I do have 1 or 2 syrupy songs that require voc's and was wondering what kind of 'Verb,if any should I use?

N-E way, Fantastic Job!

Teach Me!!!!! :)
Mr.Q
 
Hey Ed, if you ever run into these guys again make sure to tell them that they each can take "the fall" down to their knees and give me a rim-job for listening to their crap-ass song.
 
I like his voice, but I'd prefer it less vibrantly sincere and less exquisitely-articulated. I don't like acoustic guitar picked with nail-less fingers. The band don't seem very tight or inspired. It's okay, but what a lot of money to spend for something at this level.

As for the recording, nice sound. Why put more mics on a drum kit if you can a sound that good with four only? Do people put 8 mics on a kit just because they *can* these days?

It's interesting to go from this one to Miller's new tune. Instant interest shift. The song and the performance make a GREAT BIG difference.
 
Just a thought...

Would everyone's comments be so negative if Ed hadn't started the ball rolling downhill? Ed, I understand your need to try and point out some of the crap beforehand to try and separate bad performance from bad engineering, but I have to wonder about how much bias gets introduced into 'our' opinions by your initial discussion...

Queue
 
mhhhh

It doesn't suck at all IMO. I hear worse songs on MTV daily :).
Nice mix and an OK song. But what do I know I listen to metal :)

Keijo
 
I do agree somewhat with Queue....

Why post something you are unable to get behind positively?

However....I do stand by my observation.

Sonusman...I guess it's kind of like defending a guilty client,if you where a lawyer,..tough job but somebody's got to do it.

I would like to say that maybe we shouldn't rip people who aren't here to at least attempt a defense of themselves.

Rusty K
 
Rusty,

Not exactly my point.

My thought was, that if Ed had merely posted the song, with little to no initial comment, people's opinions might be different than if Ed says "here's the best I can achieve with some sucky band".

What I try to do when reviewing mixes here:
  1. Download the clip, trying NOT to read the posts, if any
  2. Listen, and jot down my thoughts
  3. Read any other posts
  4. Point out anything unique that I've got to say
  5. If there's something that really sticks out, and someone has already pointed it out, I might reiterate.
    [/list=1]

    Queue
 
Yeah, I was influenced by Ed's comments too.

These days, I don't read other people's comments first, I just download the song and take it from there. But I read Ed's comments with this one, and found myself listening to what was wrong with it from the get go. But I *did* like the singer's voice and the sound Ed got on it. The reason I mentioned Miller's tune in my previous post is for two reasons:

1 Because the song and the performance are so much better, it shines by comparison.

2 Although I think Ed's mix got a better sound on the vocal, it's interesting to me how Miller's mix doesn't seem to suffer much by comparison because it all hangs so well together, because it's well done, and because THE SONG AND THE PERFORMANCE ARE SO MUCH BETTER.

Okay, okay, Ed did this mix in two hours or something, and I bet Miller spent days on 'Better Days', but comparing the final products, I conclude that homerecording can accomplish a lot with some talent and hard work. Ed can accomplish the same thing in a lot less time, and that's perhaps impressive as hell, or perhaps to be expected from someone who spends a *lot* of time doing this. But a comparison of outcomes is instructive.

I think I would've noticed the difference between these two tunes even if Ed hadn't tipped everyone from the start.
 
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