Annual Humidity post - SUPER IMPORTANT - READ THIS!!!!!!! (long, but worth it)

burndog said:
I agree that very low humidity is worse than high as it can do severe damage that will not correct itself, whereas high humidity problems will usually sort themselves out with time when exposed to normal levels again, but not always.

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Please cite some examples or possible problems that may occur in this scenario.
 
naughty, naughty, you didn't read the link I gave a few posts back...I may not know alot, but I would imagine that Jean Larrivee knows his stuff.

Check out the the section on Summer, which deals with high humidity.
 
burndog said:
naughty, naughty, you didn't read the link I gave a few posts back...I may not know alot, but I would imagine that Jean Larrivee knows his stuff.

Check out the the section on Summer, which deals with high humidity.
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You are perfectly entitled to accept or deny the content of this thread and disregard what most people have stated. That is your privillage. However I will correct any factual inaccuracies that get posted here. I have described what happens and the best way to combat the problems that may occur as a result of fluctuations in relative humidity.

On the subject of the article you cited. As a guitar maker I am a big fan of many makers and their instruments, Larrivee and their mass produced and pretty guitars being among them. The factual accuracy of much of that article is questionable although much is also good advice.

I was rather hoping for some conclusive evidence of the way timber behaves and the effects it has on timber in service rather than a company speil. I can provide you with reliable data on the manner in which timber behaves when exposed to extremes of humidity if you wish but I rather feel you have made up your mind.

That is fine but please don't muddy what is simple and demonstratable advice from many people here with advice that cannot be supported and flies in the face of what material science tells us about timber and moisture. Science is science and opinions are opinions.

Equally everybody has a different set of environment conditions in which they have to manage and store their instruments. Yours would be different from mine, which is different from the next guy. What is outlined here is a guide to the best way to do that once they have assessed the environment. I applaud the steps you have taken and the diligence with which you have gone about it. You have covered all bases but my advice to you is spend you efforts on controlling the lower end of the scale because as I and others have said, humidity in the upper range is far less damaging. That is simply due to the nature of timber and how it reacts to extremes of humidity. Stating that high humidity is just as damaging as low humidity is simply not true. Far from it.

Good luck
 
muttley600 said:
You are perfectly entitled to accept or deny the content of this thread and disregard what most people have stated. That is your privillage. However I will correct any factual inaccuracies that get posted here. I have described what happens and the best way to combat the problems that may occur as a result of fluctuations in relative humidity.

On the subject of the article you cited. As a guitar maker I am a big fan of many makers and their instruments, Larrivee and their mass produced and pretty guitars being among them. The factual accuracy of much of that article is questionable although much is also good advice.

I was rather hoping for some conclusive evidence of the way timber behaves and the effects it has on timber in service rather than a company speil. I can provide you with reliable data on the manner in which timber behaves when exposed to extremes of humidity if you wish but I rather feel you have made up your mind.
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I'm really not sure what you would consider conclusive evidence, but another link that shows photos may support what I am try to convey a bit better.

http://www.taylorguitars.com/global/pdfs/wet_guitar.pdf

Note the last sentence of the first paragraph and the bit about effects of high humidity can be more costly when it comes to repair.

muttley600 said:
That is fine but please don't muddy what is simple and demonstratable advice from many people here with advice that cannot be supported and flies in the face of what material science tells us about timber and moisture. Science is science and opinions are opinions.
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Well, I'm sure you will agree that wood will expand when laden with moisture and that it will shrink when in a state of low humidity, all other things being equal.

muttley600 said:
Equally everybody has a different set of environment conditions in which they have to manage and store their instruments. Yours would be different from mine, which is different from the next guy. What is outlined here is a guide to the best way to do that once they have assessed the environment. I applaud the steps you have taken and the diligence with which you have gone about it. You have covered all bases but my advice to you is spend you efforts on controlling the lower end of the scale because as I and others have said, humidity in the upper range is far less damaging. That is simply due to the nature of timber and how it reacts to extremes of humidity. Stating that high humidity is just as damaging as low humidity is simply not true. Far from it.
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Just for the record, please note that I have in fact never once said that high humidity is just as damaging as low humidity.

I have however in my original post (post #72) said "and I learned that over humidified can be almost as bad as under humidified"

muttley600 said:
Good luck
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Thanks mutley600...really, I am not trying to be difficult, I just thought that people should be aware that high humidity can have serious consequences as well.

All in all, I think this is an awesome thread, as it makes people aware that fine instruments need care and that the environment in which it is stored is indeed important. One does not have to lose sleep over it, but they should be aware and take necessary precautions to avoid unwanted damage or expense.

thanks again
Peace!:)
 
burndog said:
I'm really not sure what you would consider conclusive evidence, but another link that shows photos may support what I am try to convey a bit better.

http://www.taylorguitars.com/global/pdfs/wet_guitar.pdf

Note the last sentence of the first paragraph and the bit about effects of high humidity can be more costly when it comes to repair.



Well, I'm sure you will agree that wood will expand when laden with moisture and that it will shrink when in a state of low humidity, all other things being equal.



Just for the record, please note that I have in fact never once said that high humidity is just as damaging as low humidity.

I have however in my original post (post #72) said "and I learned that over humidified can be almost as bad as under humidified"



Thanks mutley600...really, I am not trying to be difficult, I just thought that people should be aware that high humidity can have serious consequences as well.

All in all, I think this is an awesome thread, as it makes people aware that fine instruments need care and that the environment in which it is stored is indeed important. One does not have to lose sleep over it, but they should be aware and take necessary precautions to avoid unwanted damage or expense.

thanks again
Peace!:)
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Like I said you can believe what you want, I'm pretty much done with you. I have been dealing with this stuff for years and repair those Taylors on a daily basis but never from over humidifying.. It's entirely up to you how you humidify your guitars but I seriously advise you NOT to use a dehumidifier. Your call.

I can give you instructions and examples of how to carry out tests on timber to understand how much moisture and at what rates it changes and when, but again I really don't care enough anymore and I don't think you are interested..

Anyway a final word from our old friend light. I would agree and only add that 50% of the time they never close up, but fuck it thats wood......

Light said:
Frankly, wood just doesn't soak up moisture fast enough for the shower thing to really work, as near as I can tell. What probably made the bigger difference is keeping it in the case and keeping the case well humidified. I don't think the shower thing hurt, but I doubt it helped much, and certainly not as much as the other.

That's the thing. While I will caution against rapid temperature changes, I don't get too worked up about rapid humidity changes. Yes, wood will lose moisture, but it doesn't happen very quickly. If you were to play your guitar for 8-10 hours a day, it's possible that you would notice a difference when you started playing and when you finished, but most of us don't play that much. As long as the guitar is spending most of it's time in a well humidified environment, it's gonna be happy. The first step in repairing any humidity crack in our shop is to humidify the crap out of the guitar (our shop is kept in the 45-50% range, and on top of that we will throw two or three additional humidifiers into the case) until it closes up, and it usually takes 2-3 weeks to do so. I don't think they lose moisture any faster than they gain it, not really, so you're going to be fine playing it, just make sure you store it properly.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
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Peace.
 
Im with burndog on this...I dont know why some people cant just compromise their point of view and always have to be right...like its a teenage argument with teenage language :rolleyes:


a sign of an over inflated ego Id guess


anyway over humidified can be almost as bad as under humidified in many cases...period
 
kcearl said:
Im with burndog on this...I dont know why some people cant just compromise their point of view and always have to be right...like its a teenage argument with teenage language :rolleyes:


a sign of an over inflated ego Id guess


anyway over humidified can be almost as bad as under humidified in many cases...period
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Go on tell the group how?


:laughings:
 
Chili said:
Ah, I didn't want the thread to get diluted. It's good info and good discussion. Plus, KC was doing just for fun rather than having a serious conversation. :D
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Yeh I know. He's been trying to bait me for a while now. Seems to be working huh..;)
 
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