Angel Beside Me

M

Matcham

New member
Hi, first time poster here and new forum user. The site comes highly recommended by a friend. I've been checking out a lot of the forum comments and I'm really impressed with the constructive, technical criticism. Don't we all need some of that?

https://soundcloud.com/matcham-caine/angel-beside-me

I've used Realtracks to build the song. It's mixed in Logic Pro and I've tweaked almost everything to get the sound I was after. Something that sounds performance oriented. Something organic. How did I do?
 
hey matcham, you are singing in an entirely different key than the music, so it's hard to get past that and judge the song.

if you can hear that, than you can probably improve upon it, but if you can't hear that, you're going to need to have someone else sing your song.
 
Nola said:
hey matcham, you are singing in an entirely different key than the music, so it's hard to get past that and judge the song.
Click to expand...

I'm not hearing that, actually. The vox are definitely a little pitchy throughout, but overall he's in the right key. (And for the genre, I think having a little sway in the pitch works)

at 1:38 the lead fiddle tone changes drastically. Did you say it's all canned instruments? I'm not sure how you'd even make that happen! If it is live, it's probably a mic issue; either you moved or the mic wasn't positioned correctly.

The start is a little abrupt, I think. Check your fade ins.

Welcome to the forum!
 
Thanks Steve. And Nola. Nola's comment had me back to the drawing board a bit (ouch!) esp as I did already feel that the vocal wasn't quite sitting right. When I went back to Logic and turned pitch correction OFF it sounded a lot better. (Not perfect, but better). Turns out I hadn't tweaked the settings for the deliberate blues notes I was singing eg F#7 bar 4. Still, embarrassing. I'm also not sure about the distortion added to the vox. I'll have to keep playing with it.

As for the fiddle solo. It is canned. No automation, no new region, no nuthin' at the point you mentioned Steve. Fade in at the start is a good idea to soften that first hit. Thanks.
 
Matcham said:
Thanks Steve. And Nola. Nola's comment had me back to the drawing board a bit (ouch!) esp as I did already feel that the vocal wasn't quite sitting right. When I went back to Logic and turned pitch correction OFF it sounded a lot better. (Not perfect, but better). Turns out I hadn't tweaked the settings for the deliberate blues notes I was singing eg F#7 bar 4. Still, embarrassing. I'm also not sure about the distortion added to the vox. I'll have to keep playing with it.

As for the fiddle solo. It is canned. No automation, no new region, no nuthin' at the point you mentioned Steve. Fade in at the start is a good idea to soften that first hit. Thanks.
Click to expand...

That makes sense maybe it was correcting your pitch to the wrong scale. That's what it sounded like...just way off at times.
I might not be able to sing in tune myself, but I can certainly hear the issues when they're there. Normally I don't even care too much about pitch if it's in the ballpark, but this one sounded weird and was likely the pitch correction.
 
Honestly, I think I preferred the first mix actually. I think the sloppier vocals had more energy. That rawness that the blues really needs.

That is weird with the violin. Maybe your sample library does that on purpose to emulate the different strings?
 
I listened to the first mix but hadn't gotten around to commenting. I like the new mix better. You've got a good voice for this genre--folk, bluegrass. Clarity and conviction count for more than technical perfection. You've got those qualities. I'd do as little tuning as possible. I understand the arrangement is mostly Band in a Box. It sounds fine, a bit generic, but serves the song and doesn't make a nuisance of itself. I might try a little more ambiance on the vocal, but very little. I'm hearing a little bit of karaoke effect, where the voice is superimposed over the mix rather than sitting in it. But it's not bad, and you want this vocal on the dry side.
 
Hi guys gotta tell you it's refreshing and very enlightening to get honest feedback from fellow mixers. Totally agree performance and authenticity are the top priorities for vocals in my genre. Still, tuning matters. I'm happy with the energy of the vocals but I've spent hours over the past few days working out how to push and pull the vox track more onto key notes without it becoming obvious. I've given up on flexpitch. Too many artifacts and robotic sounds. A single instance is too much for my ears. Even with subtle auto pitch correction on the new link above I can hear some mechanical bends. The old truism applies I guess - rubbish in... Retracking the vocal is probably the solution.

I like where Band... Box is taking me with songwriting. Away from the guitar and onto other instruments for inspiration. Usually with recordings I add my own guitar lines to overcome the karaoke effect but couldn't justify it in this instance. It's a fair comment you make Robus.
 
It shouldn't be a problem to tune your vocals without artifacts or audible traces, unless you're doing something crazy. Melodyne is a popular choice around here.
 
Matcham,
Mix 2 sounds better indeed.
I reckon a couple of snare hits or a few banjo notes as lead in would work better than a fade in. You could cut & paste onto the front in your DAW.
There were a couple of spots where I felt the vocals were a little loud - but it's probably my headphones. The vocals stand proud of the backing but that's appropriate for the style but care is always needed to avoid the dreaded K effect.
Did you can the reverb inside BIAB? It can be problematic to match & that can make mixing even more difficult.
What do you have across the master buss?
I love the Robert Foster ness of you vocal.
Oh, maybe a little less sizzle on the cymbal and do something with the last couple of notes from the fiddle.
Otherwise it's a good mix of a cool song. The BIAB aspects come across pretty well and are nowhere near as generic as many BIAB songs I've heard.
Please post the lyrics as they "sound" cool but I'd like to read them as I listen.
 
G'day again Ray. Very astute comments here. Thanks. Re your question about the master buss... I've got ozone handling that part. Can't remember which preset but it's one of the Greg Calbi ones. There's more compression over the song than I would normally use but I find his approach pulls out the detail really nicely so I'm reluctant to play with it other than provide plenty of headroom. Vocal is maybe too loud. It's hard to tell when the level seems to change depending on which speakers you have.

OK lyrics. I'm in play mode here. The next song hits a lot harder.

Rocks on the mountain
Rocks in my head
On a hiding to nothing
Like the preacher man said
But Angel beside me
Her hands upon the wheel
Angel beside me
Her hands upon the wheel
You don’t know what you’re driving
You don’t know what I feel


Signs in the desert
Signs in the clouds
Gone for all money
But I’m back again now
I’m a fool for your lovin
I’m a-giggling and crying
I’m a fool for your lovin
I’m a-giggling and crying
I’m a cuckoo for my Angel
And you know I aint lying


Lickety splittly
Lickity Sam
Man in the mirror
Is that who I am
I’m driving to Heaven
Angel by my side
I’m driving to Heaven
Angel by my side
Got a ticket to run
Got a ticket to ride

(Rpt 1st verse)
 
Yeah if you can get your hands on Melodyne, VariAudio or any other similar program that allows you to pitch correct on a note by note basis, you will get the most natural sound.
 
What plugins are you using? I didn't know you could get such nice sounding banjo and fiddle sounds from plugins. Is the pedal steel also out of the box too?
 
Nice to read & listen - thanks. The lyrics are "painterly" - they give an impression/image that leaves plenty to the imagination & interpretation.
 
You got it, Ray. That's my approach in a nutshell. Let the imagery do the talking. I'm actually a wordsmith first, musician second, tho musicianship takes up the vast majority of my time and effort these days.

Stuvenator I've used band in a box realtracks which are in fact real musicians playing over my chord changes, not midi samples. Once in Logic Pro I do what I have to do to bring it all together in the usual way after studio tracking. Sounds like I need to check out melodyne again. I didn't like it a few years ago. Thanks.
 
I came back for another listen. If you post an update be sure to put the link in the roiginal post as well as on whatever page we are up to.
 
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