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darknailblue
New member
hey wut makes a pedal analog or digital. wut are the requirements for each?
~dn
~dn
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ecs113
New member
analog devices use continous signals, digital devices use discrete signals
C
chessrock
Banned
darknailblue said:
Someone with a brain to operate it.
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darknailblue
New member
what does that mean.... if analog uses continuos signals and digital uses discreet?
Light
New member
Analog is analog. The sound is changed through purely electronic means (capacitors, resistors, op-amps, etc.). Digital translates the sound into binary code, and all of the changes are made by a computer altering that code.
That's it. Nothing else to it. Continuous and discrete have nothing to do with it.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
That's it. Nothing else to it. Continuous and discrete have nothing to do with it.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
regebro
Insane Genious!
Light said:
A computer, made up by capacitors, resistors, op-amps, etc.
Sorry, the correct definition is that analog signals are continous, but digital is 'discrete', that is, it's made up by numbers (that's why it's called digital).
Even
New member
ok, so maybe someone can clear up "continous". Or more so what it would translate to in an audio sence.
I think digital is simple enough to grasp. The source (sound or signal) is introduced, translated to data (binary numbers) and sent (through this super math code) and translated agian to usable signal. Exactly the same way a FAX is transmitted. In goes a solid tangible piece of paper... it is broken down to Binary code.....shipped, translated back..... and printed to again, a tangible thing.
So again...... can someone scare up an analogy for "continous" or analog?
I think digital is simple enough to grasp. The source (sound or signal) is introduced, translated to data (binary numbers) and sent (through this super math code) and translated agian to usable signal. Exactly the same way a FAX is transmitted. In goes a solid tangible piece of paper... it is broken down to Binary code.....shipped, translated back..... and printed to again, a tangible thing.
So again...... can someone scare up an analogy for "continous" or analog?
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gordone
Well-known member
OK, I finally realized why I minored in Mathematics in college - so I can "scare" up a (sort of) analogy for you...
Think about a value which represents the volume of a given sample of sound. Let's call this v. In a digital system with 16 bits, there are only 2^16 possible values for v for any sample of sound. With me so far?
Now with an analog system, we don't have samples, we have a continous stream of audio information. Since we don't have samples (since it is continous and not discreet) let's look at a "snippet" of sound - How can we measure the volume at this point? How many possible values of v are there? It is infinite.
OK, I thought of an analogy which doesn't have to with audio. Think about a curve in 2-D space (which could also be a line if it is a linear function) How many points are on that line? Let's look at the function x=y (basically a diagnol line in the x-y plane which intersests the origin) It is easy to see that there are an infinite number of points on that line, EVEN if we restrict the range to be (0, 5) or someother FINITE range. In audio, take the range of a song from 1:00 to 1:30. That's 30 seconds of audio. Break that in half, break that part in half and so forth.
Oh wait - I finally thought of what I wanted to say - Place yourself 10 feet from a wall. Now walk halfway to the wall. You are now 5 feet from the wall. Now walk halfway to the wall. You are now 2.5 feet from the wall. Do this again, 1.25 feet from the wall. Will you ever get to the wall? In theory you will NEVER make it to the wall.
Now suppose we plot the f(1,2,3)->{1,2,3} (I may have the notation screwed up) - But basically this is a discreet function which when plotted would only consists of 3 dots in the 2-D plane (at (1,1), (2,2), (3,3) ) So how many points are there in this "line" - Only 3, a FINITE # since this is a discrete function. There are no points in between the 3 points on the function as there were in the first function. So this would be discrete - like Digital audio - there is no data between the finite # of function points.
OK, hope that helps!
Evan "The Mad Mathematician"
Think about a value which represents the volume of a given sample of sound. Let's call this v. In a digital system with 16 bits, there are only 2^16 possible values for v for any sample of sound. With me so far?
Now with an analog system, we don't have samples, we have a continous stream of audio information. Since we don't have samples (since it is continous and not discreet) let's look at a "snippet" of sound - How can we measure the volume at this point? How many possible values of v are there? It is infinite.
OK, I thought of an analogy which doesn't have to with audio. Think about a curve in 2-D space (which could also be a line if it is a linear function) How many points are on that line? Let's look at the function x=y (basically a diagnol line in the x-y plane which intersests the origin) It is easy to see that there are an infinite number of points on that line, EVEN if we restrict the range to be (0, 5) or someother FINITE range. In audio, take the range of a song from 1:00 to 1:30. That's 30 seconds of audio. Break that in half, break that part in half and so forth.
Oh wait - I finally thought of what I wanted to say - Place yourself 10 feet from a wall. Now walk halfway to the wall. You are now 5 feet from the wall. Now walk halfway to the wall. You are now 2.5 feet from the wall. Do this again, 1.25 feet from the wall. Will you ever get to the wall? In theory you will NEVER make it to the wall.
Now suppose we plot the f(1,2,3)->{1,2,3} (I may have the notation screwed up) - But basically this is a discreet function which when plotted would only consists of 3 dots in the 2-D plane (at (1,1), (2,2), (3,3) ) So how many points are there in this "line" - Only 3, a FINITE # since this is a discrete function. There are no points in between the 3 points on the function as there were in the first function. So this would be discrete - like Digital audio - there is no data between the finite # of function points.
OK, hope that helps!
Evan "The Mad Mathematician"
Even said:
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
To paraphrase Gordone-
Digital is 1-100 in steps of 1.
Analog is 1-100 with infinite steps in between.
The important thing to remember is that all digital gear is crap compared to analog and all analog gear is just a marketing ploy to scare people away from digital.
Digital is 1-100 in steps of 1.
Analog is 1-100 with infinite steps in between.
The important thing to remember is that all digital gear is crap compared to analog and all analog gear is just a marketing ploy to scare people away from digital.
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darknailblue
New member
gordon.... ur insane.... its a good thing i ACED calculus in high school.... I understand what you are saying now and I can clearly see why I think (and almost everyone else) analog sounds so much better than digital...
Blue Bear Sound
New member
A blanket statement like that is complete nonsense.......darknailblue said:
Light
New member
Blue Bear Sound said:A blanket statement like that is complete nonsense.......
Must agree. SOME (very expensive) analog sounds better than MOST digital, to some people’s ears. When you get into the truly high end stuff, it is a matter of taste.
And as for low cost (of even medium cost) analog, don't even think about it.
How is this for a description then?
Analog sound never is processed by a computer, and Digital is always processed by a computer.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
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deadleafecho
New member
Light said:
Actually digital doesnt have to = computer, not in the PC sense.....Besides, why bash digital....doesnt everyone listen to CDs? heh
Light
New member
deadleafecho said:
Did I say PC? No, I said computer. Anything which involves digital is a computer. There are a million (or more) different kinds of computers out there, and a very small percentage of them are PCs. Or do think what Cray makes are not computers just because they are the size of a room? Or is your palm pilot not a computer because it does not have a CDR drive?
Digital = computer.
Analog = no computer.
That simple.
I wasn't bashing digital. I like many things about digital, mostly the fact that with digital, I do not have to work for the pricks who can afford the studios that have expensive analog. I can work for people who I like, and whose music I like. When I worked in corporate audio (commercials and other crap) I used the best gear (both analog and digital) which was available. I hated the people I was working for. I never had fun in the studio. Now, I only work for bands I like, and people who I like, and they can afford my studios rates. I never have a bad day in the studio. I LOVE digital.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
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sjjohnston
New member
Sound is air pressure varying over time.
Quite a few years ago, they discovered you could make a device which, when you expose it to sound (air pressure varying over time), will produce a small electrical voltage that varies over time in a way that corresponds to the varying air pressure. This device is called a "microphone." The varying electrical voltage is an analog signal -- you can use it as an "analogy" (so to speak) for the varying air pressure.
They also discovered you could make a device which, when you run a varying electrical voltage through it, will produce waves of air pressure that vary over time in a way that corresponds to the varying electrical voltage. This device is called a "speaker."
Great: you can take the voltage coming out of a microphone, amplify it with an amplifier, and connect it to a speaker, and produce a PA system, an intercom, etc. -- a device which will take sounds produced in one place and make them come out somewhere else (louder, if you want).
If you want to take sounds produced in one place and make them come out somewhere else at another time, you need some way to make a record of the varying electrical voltage. You can:
A - take the electrical voltage and (i) run it through an electromagnet so it magnetizes a piece of tape as it is pulled past the electromagnet in a pattern that corresponds to the varying electrical voltage, then later pull the tape past an electromagnet so the magnetic pattern reproduces the same (approximately) varying electrical voltage; (ii) make it wiggle a sharp needle as it passes over a soft, rotating platter, cutting a groove that corresponds to the varying electrical voltage, then later rotate the platter under a needle so the needle moves and reproduces the same (approximately) varying electrical voltage; or
B - take the electrical voltage, write down its value 44,100 or more times per second, and record the values, then look up the values and use them to reproduce the varying electrical voltage (somewhat bizarrely, the way you "record the values" with a computer is by encoding them as a different - much higher frequency - varying electrical voltage, then using electromagnets to magnetize a spinning platter).
A is analog. B is digital.
The nifty thing about B is that once you've written the signal down as a sequence of values, you can manipulate the values in various ways to change the signal. Also, you can take the data, written as a sequence of values, and break it up into pieces, sending little chunks to people over a shared line. And a whole bunch of other things to boot.
Note that you can also make analog recordings other ways -- you don't even need electricity. This is of historical importance, if nothing else.
Quite a few years ago, they discovered you could make a device which, when you expose it to sound (air pressure varying over time), will produce a small electrical voltage that varies over time in a way that corresponds to the varying air pressure. This device is called a "microphone." The varying electrical voltage is an analog signal -- you can use it as an "analogy" (so to speak) for the varying air pressure.
They also discovered you could make a device which, when you run a varying electrical voltage through it, will produce waves of air pressure that vary over time in a way that corresponds to the varying electrical voltage. This device is called a "speaker."
Great: you can take the voltage coming out of a microphone, amplify it with an amplifier, and connect it to a speaker, and produce a PA system, an intercom, etc. -- a device which will take sounds produced in one place and make them come out somewhere else (louder, if you want).
If you want to take sounds produced in one place and make them come out somewhere else at another time, you need some way to make a record of the varying electrical voltage. You can:
A - take the electrical voltage and (i) run it through an electromagnet so it magnetizes a piece of tape as it is pulled past the electromagnet in a pattern that corresponds to the varying electrical voltage, then later pull the tape past an electromagnet so the magnetic pattern reproduces the same (approximately) varying electrical voltage; (ii) make it wiggle a sharp needle as it passes over a soft, rotating platter, cutting a groove that corresponds to the varying electrical voltage, then later rotate the platter under a needle so the needle moves and reproduces the same (approximately) varying electrical voltage; or
B - take the electrical voltage, write down its value 44,100 or more times per second, and record the values, then look up the values and use them to reproduce the varying electrical voltage (somewhat bizarrely, the way you "record the values" with a computer is by encoding them as a different - much higher frequency - varying electrical voltage, then using electromagnets to magnetize a spinning platter).
A is analog. B is digital.
The nifty thing about B is that once you've written the signal down as a sequence of values, you can manipulate the values in various ways to change the signal. Also, you can take the data, written as a sequence of values, and break it up into pieces, sending little chunks to people over a shared line. And a whole bunch of other things to boot.
Note that you can also make analog recordings other ways -- you don't even need electricity. This is of historical importance, if nothing else.
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sjjohnston
New member
Light said:
Somebody will probably point out that a DAT recorder and a standalone CD recorder (or a CD player, for that matter), are not "computers" in the way the word "computer" is ordinarily used in common speech.
On the other hand, I think they are "computers" in the sense that you mean, i.e. they've got a digital processor in there (on a chip, like a PC).
But if I saw someone holding a DAT recorder and said, "Hand me that computer," I think I would instead receive a blank look.
sweetnubs
New member
jesus what in the hell are you guys talking about. here let me help you:
digital is a binary representation of an analog signal. in digital an analog signal is converted into ones and zeros and it stored as data. let's take an analog reel to reel for example: the intial sound is transduced into an electrical signal at the microphone. to be simple let's say the signal makes its way to the heads on the analog deck where the little particles are magnetized on the tape, (i am trying to avoid terms like flux, gap, domains to keep things understandble) now the stored signal is analogous to the original signal. the little particles are arranged in response to the magnetic flux (jesus i said it) which responded to the electrical "signal" which responded to the changes in the microphone diaphragm which responded to changes in air pressure which is actually the peaks and troughs of the waves spread through the medium of air which was in turn cause by you singing for example. the chain remains analogous. you could argue the stored waveform is "continous." again I'm keeping things simple, because there are counter-arguments to this but it is roughly the general principle. now with a digital storage device such as an Adat, the signal is eventually hits the analog to digital converters, and the words "analog-to-digital" sort of give you a clue as to what is happening. although transduction doesn't technically take place the a/d converter can be considered a transducer in how it affects the sound. the continuous analog signal is now sampled and quantized into ones and zeros. (again to be simple) what is stored on the tape (or hard drive) is data which represents the orginal analog waveform. so to sum up as far as recording devices are concerned, an analog deck "stores" your waveform magnetically in a "continuous" form and is analogous to the original waveform. (of course there is bias noise, wow and flutter, some argue the size of the domains in a sense act as "quantization", etc.) in a digital device the same waveform is stored as data and is a numeric representation of the original waveform and is not analogous to the original waveform.
digital is a binary representation of an analog signal. in digital an analog signal is converted into ones and zeros and it stored as data. let's take an analog reel to reel for example: the intial sound is transduced into an electrical signal at the microphone. to be simple let's say the signal makes its way to the heads on the analog deck where the little particles are magnetized on the tape, (i am trying to avoid terms like flux, gap, domains to keep things understandble) now the stored signal is analogous to the original signal. the little particles are arranged in response to the magnetic flux (jesus i said it) which responded to the electrical "signal" which responded to the changes in the microphone diaphragm which responded to changes in air pressure which is actually the peaks and troughs of the waves spread through the medium of air which was in turn cause by you singing for example. the chain remains analogous. you could argue the stored waveform is "continous." again I'm keeping things simple, because there are counter-arguments to this but it is roughly the general principle. now with a digital storage device such as an Adat, the signal is eventually hits the analog to digital converters, and the words "analog-to-digital" sort of give you a clue as to what is happening. although transduction doesn't technically take place the a/d converter can be considered a transducer in how it affects the sound. the continuous analog signal is now sampled and quantized into ones and zeros. (again to be simple) what is stored on the tape (or hard drive) is data which represents the orginal analog waveform. so to sum up as far as recording devices are concerned, an analog deck "stores" your waveform magnetically in a "continuous" form and is analogous to the original waveform. (of course there is bias noise, wow and flutter, some argue the size of the domains in a sense act as "quantization", etc.) in a digital device the same waveform is stored as data and is a numeric representation of the original waveform and is not analogous to the original waveform.
HogansHiro
Now with 25% more sarcasm
YEAH!!! What he said!!
sweetnubs...I got your back.
sweetnubs...I got your back.
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deadleafecho
New member
Light said:
Hey if you wanna get pissy about it, the earliest COMPUTERS werent even digital, heard of ENIAC? So technically its possible to consider an analog sound being processed by a computer. If your going to use a common term in an uncommon way,COMPUTER, qualify that maybe? And i never said you were bashing digital, i was refering more to the "...see why I think (and almost everyone else) analog sounds so much better than digital... " comment..but maybe i should have qualified that 8)
sweetnubs
New member
regarless if the eniac computers were tube based they still stored information in binary form.