Analog to Digital - on the cheap

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Rockenheimer

New member
I asked this question before but once I took my newfound education to the music store, the guy behind the counter basically blew me out of the water in two sentences and started going on about Cubase. Look at me: is this the face of a guy who wants to go and buy friggin' Cubase? No - it's not. So once again, here goes:

I recorded everything on quarter inch tape. It's done. It's not mixed, but that's because I don't want to mix it on tape. I want to mix it directly onto my hard drive. Sounds easy enough. Folks have come back to me with ideas about taking the two RCA OUT jacks from my TASCAM 8-track and plugging them into mini adapters and sticking that into my sound card (Hewlett Packard stock crap that came with my new PC - Athlon wherever-the-hell-they're-at-now-in-ludicrousbytes-processor). I don't know jack about it, but I know enough about recording to get a gut feeling that if I do that, my precious mix is going to sound like it was done on an answering machine. I need to know:

1) is there just a soundcard I can buy and stick in my PC that's high quality enough to allow for this?

2) supposing there is, will I need to buy special software to make it work? I expect to have no more than the damn drivers to install that soundcard. But if I need highfallutin software - what is it? What's THAT gonna cost me?

2) supposing a "yes" can be bypassed for question number 2), is there software / shareware / plug-ins / anything-that-won't-cost-me-more-than-say-250-300-bucks that will allow me to control the input as the transfer is being made? What I'm looking for is a sort of virtual mixing board - even basic, it doesn't matter. Something I can push the faders and tweak the mids, say, with my mouse. That's all I need. Does that exist? Where do I get it?

I have more questions, but I have to start here. Thank you all for your time. I have to come up with a snazzy catch-line for a signature, like some of you guys.

Frustratedguywho'sreallyjustamusicianbutwhohastorecordhimselfcuzhe'ssickandtiredofblowinghisdoughonstudioswhilehehaseverythingheneedsrightinhisownhouse.
 
Rockenheimer said:
I asked this question before but once I took my newfound education to the music store, the guy behind the counter basically blew me out of the water in two sentences and started going on about Cubase. Look at me: is this the face of a guy who wants to go and buy friggin' Cubase? No - it's not.
[...]
What I'm looking for is a sort of virtual mixing board - even basic, it doesn't matter. Something I can push the faders and tweak the mids, say, with my mouse. That's all I need. Does that exist? Where do I get it?
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's called Cubase. (Well, there are other alternatives than Cubase, but you get the point).

Mixing involves four "parts": 1. The recorder, 2. the mixer, 3. effects and 4. the mixdown target. Cubase does all of it. Your Tascam does 1 & 2, possibly 3, and you can use the computer for 4 (without cubase)

There is basically no point in trying to make the computer do 2, 3 and 4 but not 1.
 
What about this?

"get an M-Audio 2496 for stereo transfers then any decent wav editor will capture your songs through it. You can top and tail your wav files and use noise reduction if you need to "
 
If you want to do the RCA out to stereo mini-plug thing, all you need is a 24-bit soundcard. A Soundblaster Live! 24-bit can be obtained for as little as $20 (ON THE CHEAP!)
 
Rockenheimer said:
What about this?

"get an M-Audio 2496 for stereo transfers then any decent wav editor will capture your songs through it. You can top and tail your wav files and use noise reduction if you need to "
Click to expand...
Yes, that's an excellent choice for using your computer as a mixdown target.
 
Yeah, that's great - but don't forget: I put in a lot of work getting every track to sound as great as they could. Lots of TLC went into that. I don't want to sacrifice that either. Priority Number One is Not Sacrificing My Excellent Sound Takes. Priority Number Two is Mixing Down To Digital While Forking Over The Least Amount Of Money As Possible. Hear me out: I WILL go the way of the Cube if I ABSOLUTELY have to. I don't WANT to because it'll make all my analog equipment obsolete (in a way it already is, but... work with me here). It's just that I'm not convinced that I absolutely have to buy that damn software. It's too much for what I need. I want your opinion: go look at this http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.main&ID=adf95efc30b88aba043fa8b83343bfb8 , then this http://www.goldwave.com/release.php and tell me whether or not I'm in business that way, or whether I should still ABSOLUTELY, HANDS DOWN go with the Cube.
Thanks a lot everybody. I appreciate your time.
 
Hold the phone! Somebody just told me that if I DO go the way of the M-Audio sound card / wav editor, I'll have to download every track off that Tascam one at a time?
 
noodles2k5 said:
If you want to do the RCA out to stereo mini-plug thing, all you need is a 24-bit soundcard. A Soundblaster Live! 24-bit can be obtained for as little as $20 (ON THE CHEAP!)
Click to expand...
I don't think he wants it THAT cheap. Soundblasters suck for good audio, period.
 
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Rockenheimer said:
Hold the phone! Somebody just told me that if I DO go the way of the M-Audio sound card / wav editor, I'll have to download every track off that Tascam one at a time?
Click to expand...

Yep.

If you want 8 individual tracks that stay in sync on the computer, you need an 8-input soundcard.

Regarding software, Cakewalk Home Studio 2 can be bought for less than $100.
 
Put the money to an interface with enough inputs, like a Delta 1010, and use Kristal (free) for software. It supports VST plugins, and there are a ton of free or cheap ones out there that are actually pretty darn good because of the huge community of third party developers.

You can still always start using cubase or whatever other software you want later if you decide you've outgrown whatever it is you start out with and need more power.
 
You could get a Presonus Firepod which has 8 analog inputs, so you can transfer your 8 seperate tracks at once into the computer, it also comes with Cubase LE, which can handle up to 48 audio tracks.

I think the new TASCAM FW-1804 has 8 analog inputs and also comes with Cubase LE software.

Each of the above options cost about 600 dollars, and both use a firewire connection to the computer.

Using a stereo soundcard and a stereo recording/editing program would only work for you if you wanted to do the mixdown on an analog mixing board using outboard hardware effects, and capturing only the stereo mixdown on the computer.
 
Rockenheimer said:
Hold the phone! Somebody just told me that if I DO go the way of the M-Audio sound card / wav editor, I'll have to download every track off that Tascam one at a time?
Click to expand...
If you want to mix on the computer yes. Please read my first post in this thread.

Did you understand it? What is it you want to do on the computer? Use it as mixdown device (instead of, say, a stereo casette recorder) you want to mix on them computer (that is transfer all the raw tracks to the computer and mix in on the computer)?lö
 
Yes Regebro - I had read that first post of yours. Yes, I understood it. I know what mixing is. And to answer your other question, I want to feed 8 raw tracks from my tascam recorder onto my PC and mix them from there. THAT'S what I want to do, and I'm starting to think I'm making my life a hell of a lot harder this way. See cuz I'm trying to avoid the initial sound loss that comes from mixing down onto tape.

What's a firewire connection?

"Using a stereo soundcard and a stereo recording/editing program would only work for you if you wanted to do the mixdown on an analog mixing board using outboard hardware effects, and capturing only the stereo mixdown on the computer." Strryder - NOT what I want to do. If this is all I can accomplish going this way, I'll buy the goddam Cube. Of course I need those eight tracks to stay in sync. If I have to buy a sound card that has 8 RCA inputs and that costs the price of Cubase, it's really starting to look like I'll have to wait til Xmas before getting it. All of sudden, I'm very depressed.

I didn't know what to expect, I wasn't even sure how it would happen, but it all sounded quite simple: plug in two RCA OUTS from my 8 track recorder into two RCA INS soundcard (m-audio whatever the hell it was), run some freebie application bare-bones mixer on my pc monitor, press PLAY on the 8 track with the 8 recorded tracks on them, watch in awe as 8 raw tracks are being fed SIMULTANEOUSLY onto my PC. Turn off the 8 track, park self at PC, use mouse to tweak EQ's, find some sort of MAKE FINAL MASTER NOW button, click there, perform dance of celebration. Convert tracks to MP3. Burn CD's for the universe.

I'm gonna go eat a tub of ice cream now. DIGITAL SUCKS! Thanks for your time, all.
 
The problem you are running into is that there is no easy solution to transfer 8 individual tracks from your machine to a PC. There is NO way to do that on the cheap without spending time recording each track individually and then syncing them up in an editor like cubase, adobe audition, pro tools etc..

So you now have two options that will lead you to two seperate outcomes.
OPTION 1:

Buy a multi input interface for your PC like the Presonus Firepod which has 8 inputs and outputs. Or the Delta 1010. If you buy the Firepod you can not only get 8 sperate tracks simultaneously, but you also get a Cubase LE to get you started. And you can now record directly to your PC and skip the tape machine all together for future recording if you decide thats what you want to do.

IMO: the above option is better because its not a dead end.


OPTION 2:
Buy a decent soundcard that is inexpensive and can capture your stereo output from your tape machine. Once you have captured using some free program like Kristal or Audacity, you can now EQ, Maximize your volume for CD playback, and burn to CD etc..

This is cheap and uses your PC as a mixdown device only. Unless of course you decide to capture 1 track at a time and then reassemble and sync it in audacity or Kristal. This is a lot of work but its entirely possible.

This option isn't really expandable, you still need a good PC audio interface in the future if you want to do simulataneous track recording.

I just want to add that a cheap sound card with a stereo line in can get you much better results than you might expect. I use my PC for quick mix and master so I can burn CD for critical listening, and I have no problem with result I get in my car and on my stereo. However I would save my tracks as WAv from my BR 1180CD and then master non my PC and burn a CD, but thats only for finalizing not for quick mixes.

P.S. Adobe Audition sells for around $250-300 I believe, and is very capable IMO. I used it a work the other day and was pretty impressed by how quick I figured it out and had a finished product. Not a bad app at all.
 
Rockenheimer said:
See cuz I'm trying to avoid the initial sound loss that comes from mixing down onto tape.
Click to expand...
Well, then don't. Mix down TO the computer. Which still is a different thing from mixing ON the computer. Which I explained in my first post.

I didn't know what to expect, I wasn't even sure how it would happen, but it all sounded quite simple: plug in two RCA OUTS from my 8 track recorder into two RCA INS soundcard (m-audio whatever the hell it was), run some freebie application bare-bones mixer on my pc monitor, press PLAY on the 8 track with the 8 recorded tracks on them, watch in awe as 8 raw tracks are being fed SIMULTANEOUSLY onto my PC.
Click to expand...
How did you expect to transfer 8 tracks through two cables? If you recorded these 8 tracks you must be aware that one track takes one cable.



I feel like you are pulling my leg so I give up now, I think.
 
On the cheap.....

First, abuy Cubase SE (or whatever the $100 version of Cubase is). Now you have some sort of way to mix your material.

Second, take your Tascam over to a friends house or find anyone with an 8 input Soundcrad and pay them $50 or something to do the transfer for you and give you a disc of the files.

Or, you could also probably find a used M-Audio delta1010 or 1010LT for under $250 and do it yourself.
 
Rockenheimer said:
I'm gonna go eat a tub of ice cream now. DIGITAL SUCKS! Thanks for your time, all.
Click to expand...
...and you're basing that opinion by comparison to a Tascam 8-track????!! :rolleyes:

If it's a cassette-based 8-track portastudio (as opposed to a R2R), then even budget digital will seriously outperform it sonically............

As others have said, the only practical way for you to mix in the box is to get an 8-ch computer interface that will let you move the 8-tracks over at once. So you'll have to spend some money for a good one... then you also need the s/w -- there are quite a number of budget options.... Cubase is excellent, and they have a lite version that is relatively inexpensive.

You say you want to maintain sound quality? Then you generally also can't have CHEAP -- with few exceptions, it simply doesn't work that way.....

Good luck!


PS - if you find recording a very frustrating experience, then it's quite possible you shouldn't be doing it at all; you'll only get mediocre results at best. Find a local studio in your area and let them handle the technical aspects while you concentrate on being a songwriter/musician/artist. Recording is an art that takes as much skill as learning to excel at playing an instrument and writing songs -- very few people can do both very well.
 
Rockenheimer,

I'll tell you what, if you can bring your 8 track and your tapes to me, I'll record it all to wave files, how many tapes/songs are there, 2 hours worth? 4 hours worth? What machine do you have?

I'll put the wave files (24 bit/44.1 khz) for each song into seperate folders and burn them onto CD-R's for you, so that you will be able to import the waves into a multitrack computer program and mix them yourself.

I'm in the New Haven-Bridgeport area of CT.

No cost.
 
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