Analog synth with MIDI question

[SteveM]

I know there's a keyboard forum but this has to do with analog too. I'm wondering if there are analog synths with midi output that I could use with my Kurzweil module. I already have a Kurzweil digital piano that I use with it but I'm thinking of getting rid of that, because the module has all those sounds and more, and getting a analog synth that I can shape sounds on but also have the option to go out to the module if I want too. Does anyone have any suggestions for a great sounding analog synth? Will the old analog midis work with the new modules?

 

[jpmorris]

Just to check, are you talking about controlling the analog synth with the Kurzweil, or controlling the Kurzweil with the analog synth?

Also, what vintage is the synth you're thinking of? In short, most polyphonic synths from about 1985 onwards have MIDI at least as an option. Sometimes it's input-only, and usually when they have output they are kind of lacking in features. Probably best to get an analog machine for the sound, and get a dedicated controller keyboard if that's what you're thinking.

Practically any monophonic synthesizer can be MIDI-controlled if it has a CV input, but you'll need to buy a MIDI->CV interface. Forget about using it as a controller, though.

Polyphonic synthesizers like the OB-X or Prophet are a problem - there are usually MIDI kits for these but AFAIK they can be very rare and difficult to get hold of. Again, you probably don't want to use it as a controller.

I have a couple of rackmount analogue synths - a 1989 Cheetah MS6 and a 2001 Waldorf Pulse. Both came with MIDI by default (since they would otherwise be completely useless).

 

[Sailjunkie]

I have a Sequential Circuits Six Trak w/Midi...

in, out, thru. I have run modules through that from time to time. I also have a Memorymoog minus midi...I have thought for years of getting a midi to CV converter, but I don't really need it. I usually use it as a stand alone in my studio. I have several other synths (digital, and analog modeling, drum boxes etc.)that I midi up together though.

 

[SteveM]

Wow , sounds more complicated than I expected.

JP, I wanted to use the analog synth as the controller. But it sounds more complicated with that scenario by what you're saying. The aim was to keep my modular and sell my digital piano and get an analog synth for all the analog sounds but still be able to control the modular when I needed it. I might as well just keep the piano then as a controller.

 

[jpmorris]

Wow , sounds more complicated than I expected.

JP, I wanted to use the analog synth as the controller. But it sounds more complicated with that scenario by what you're saying. The aim was to keep my modular and sell my digital piano and get an analog synth for all the analog sounds but still be able to control the modular when I needed it. I might as well just keep the piano then as a controller.

It depends on the machine, I guess. Also the keyboard design. A Sequential Circuits polysynth would probably work because from what I've heard, they had some of the best MIDI implementations. Some of the others only supported basic note on/note off with no velocity or any such stuff.

If it's a modular, chances are it may be monophonic. Some keyboards - especially in earlier designs - had a keyboard design which was innately monophonic because that's all that was needed. As I understand it, polyphonic synthesizer keyboards only became easy to do once it became practical to use microprocessors or similar digital systems to scan the keys and do voice allocation.

What machine is the modular anyway?

 

[SteveM]

JP, it's a Kurzweil micro ensemble. Like this... http://cgi.ebay.com/KURZWEIL-Micro-Ensemble-keyboard-sound-module-MINT_W0QQitemZ130303685810QQcmdZViewItemQQptZKeyboards_MIDI?hash=item1e56b474b2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A13|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

It"s got some great sounds, keys, strings, etc..


Rack Module: 1U height, half rack width
Display: 5x7 LED dot matrix
Polyphony: 32 Voice Polyphony, dynamically allocated
Multitimbral: 16 parts (one per MIDI channel)
Factory Presets: 256 programs. Includes complete PC2 Base ROM Sound set
Effects: 30 effects combinations, with a choice of reverbs, choruses, delays, and flangers. Each effects has a wet/dry mix, which can be controlled per channel. Change and store effects for each of the 256 presets.
MIDI: In, Thru
Outputs: Two 1/4" unbalanced TS analog (24-bit DACs)
Headphones: Rear panel 1/4" headphone output

 

[Blue Jinn]

Something like a DX7 (FM not an "analog synth" per se) or some of the Roland or Korg (like the Juno or Poly's) should work ok. Something from the mid to late 80s vs something from the 70s or early 80s (a polymoog ain't going to do it....) You might also consider something like an Oberheim Matrix, or the Crumar BIT 01, which are rack mount analog synths, and keep the Kurzweil as controller. There are other rack mount analogs as indicated elsewhere in the thread.

 

[SteveM]

Thanks for the reply Bluejinn. I'll probably just keep the SP 76. It's a decent stage piano anyway with semi weighted keys. Maybe sometime down the road I'll get an analog synth.

 

[Dr ZEE]

The aim was to keep my modular...

Don't call your MIDI Module "modular" in a conversation related to analog synth ... or you'll confuse folks on the block ..heh heh

Th..and sell my digital piano ....

Don't sell SP-76. You can't sell it for a good buck (especially if you bought it new originally - ) And It's a great digi-piano, also must be a great midi-controller if you like "piano"-keys feel, that is. (I actually don't - I kind of more used to faster and lighter feel of synth "type" of keys). So, - Just Keep your SP.

...get an analog synth for all the analog sounds ....

You can't get an "analog synth" for "ALL" analog sounds. No such thing...nor there should be such thing nor can it be. Also there's no such thing as "amount" of analog sounds, you can't count "them"

Also as was noted already, - forget about an idea of "controlling" a MIDI 'module' with an analog synthesizer's keyboard.
**************

How's your new toy?

 

[jpmorris]

JP, it's a Kurzweil micro ensemble.

Ah, right. That's a digital rackmount module. A modular analogue synthesizer is something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J35fM1Nzww

...huge, hugely expensive and hugely complex. However it does things which smaller, more portable synthesizers simply can't. It literally consists of a number of small plug-in modules which are connected using patch cords.
Up until about 1971 all synthesizers were like that, and it was this sort of machine in combination with a multitrack which did Switched On Bach or the theme song from A Clockwork Orange. Things like the Minimoog and ARP 2600 did away with the patch cords and made them a lot, lot smaller and easier to tour with, but at the expense of flexibility.

The modular is indeed the closest you can come to getting "all" analogue sounds, but it's not cheap and it's not polyphonic, either.

Something like the Waldorf Pulse or a Virtual Analogue synth like the Novation A-station is probably a decent beginner's synth if you don't need a keyboard.

 

[SteveM]

Don't call your MIDI Module "modular" in a conversation related to analog synth ... or you'll confuse folks on the block ..heh heh


Don't sell SP-76. You can't sell it for a good buck (especially if you bought it new originally - ) And It's a great digi-piano, also must be a great midi-controller if you like "piano"-keys feel, that is. (I actually don't - I kind of more used to faster and lighter feel of synth "type" of keys). So, - Just Keep your SP.


You can't get an "analog synth" for "ALL" analog sounds. No such thing...nor there should be such thing nor can it be. Also there's no such thing as "amount" of analog sounds, you can't count "them"

Also as was noted already, - forget about an idea of "controlling" a MIDI 'module' with an analog synthesizer's keyboard.
**************

How's your new toy?

Good to see you Zee. And thanks for the advice.


The new toy? As in the thread I made? Uhmm,.....it's pretty useless.

 

[SteveM]

Ah, right. That's a digital rackmount module. A modular analogue synthesizer is something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J35fM1Nzww

...huge, hugely expensive and hugely complex. However it does things which smaller, more portable synthesizers simply can't. It literally consists of a number of small plug-in modules which are connected using patch cords.
Up until about 1971 all synthesizers were like that, and it was this sort of machine in combination with a multitrack which did Switched On Bach or the theme song from A Clockwork Orange. Things like the Minimoog and ARP 2600 did away with the patch cords and made them a lot, lot smaller and easier to tour with, but at the expense of flexibility.

The modular is indeed the closest you can come to getting "all" analogue sounds, but it's not cheap and it's not polyphonic, either.
.

Yeah, that's pretty wild. With the "operators" board. I've messed around with one before. That one particularly sounds really good. I think you could create every sound under the sun on that.

Thanks for the input JP!

 

[jedblue]

Arrgghhhh, mono analog synths. Here's mine. It's a 1977 Yamaha CS30. I call it the "evil black knobbed b'stard". It's monophonic and like most of the early ones it has no preset sounds and no memory. No midi on this old cat. Everything you do on it you have to do by hand. But it has two of most things. Two VCO's, two VCA's, two VCF's, two audio outputs, three envelope filters, one LFO, one external trigger and one eight step internal sequencer.

It has fifty seven black knobs, sixteen black sliders, twenty black switches, two red buttons, twenty six white keys, eighteen black keys and one on/off button. It doesn't use patch cables for routing (there's one at the back), just it's front panel switches but there are endless patching options on it. You can pretty much patch and trigger anything from anything (and get yourself into a big mess as a result). You can even plug it's audio outputs back into it's external trigger and really upset it. And you can plug a guitar into it and trigger it with that if you want.

I use it in The Lonely Few and also as a solo free form instrument. The current project is this two sided C60 cassette release I'm working on. Two 30 minute synthesizer pieces, one starting with a 32' wavelength and the other at 16', recorded directly to my old Akai GX-95 cassette deck.

It's packaged in an old Italian tomato tin painted with flower arranging paint, dymo label lettering and a hand written insert card. Given that it's so much different than anything else I'm doing, I've created a new persona called rOn.KnOb to put this stuff out on.

These old machines getting a bit expensive now but they are a huge amount of fun. Fortunately there's quite a few cats out there making modular analogs that you can assemble up into whatever you want. Or get one of the new old Moogs.

Highly recommended for really stretching your synthesizer abilities. I'm a long way away yet from really understanding this machine.

Jed

 

[SteveM]

It's packaged in an old Italian tomato tin painted with flower arranging paint, dymo label lettering and a hand written insert card. Jed

What were we talking about again.

Cool stuff.

 

[Beck]

Hey Steve,

Before I start rattling off a list of analog synths (old and new) you can use to control your MIDI sound modules, how many octaves will do? Are 61 keys ok or do you need 76 or 88?

~Tim



(Holy crap... it's almost 4:30 AM. Why am I still awake?)

 

[SteveM]

Hey Steve,

Before I start rattling off a list of analog synths (old and new) you can use to control your MIDI sound modules, how many octaves will do? Are 61 keys ok or do you need 76 or 88?

~Tim



(Holy crap... it's almost 4:30 AM. Why am I still awake?)

You were up too, heh?

I really don't know. The reason I asked was to find out if I sell the piano now if I could get something else later. I'm probably just going to keep the piano though because it is decent for what it is. In the future I'll get some kind of analog keys. Even if it's just some kind of cool analog keyboard, a Rhodes or whatever. I actually have a old Lowrey with a leslie speaker in storage. A synth would be fun though.

My original idea though was that I'd want at least 76 keys so I could use it like a piano with the module if I wanted.

 

[Dr ZEE]

...

Before I start rattling off a list of analog synths (old and new) you can use to control your MIDI sound modules...:

..I'd suggest to think of PRACTICALITY of such idea FIRST!

,and Steve already got an arguably one of the best performance midi-controller that 'cost' him nothing as we speak

The fact that you 'can' do something should never be confused with a sensible or justifiable reason for doing so.

...

(Holy crap... it's almost 4:30 AM. ...:

Yeah, and it's better to do during the day-light time

 

[Beck]

..I'd suggest to think of PRACTICALITY of such idea FIRST!

,and Steve already got an arguably one of the best performance midi-controller that 'cost' him nothing as we speak

The fact that you 'can' do something should never be confused with a sensible or justifiable reason for doing so.

You are indeed correct, good doctor. But had he been set on going the way he first proposed due to space issues or whatever, I just wanted to give him some good options.

I control my MIDI modules with a K1200 Pro 76 and an Ensoniq ESQ-1… love these things. I have an older Moog with no MIDI, so I have to record that to tape. I am cramped for space though.

(NOTE: MS Word spell checker wants to change Kurzweil to Korowai… WTH? )

 

[Dr ZEE]

I have an older Moog with no MIDI, so I have to record that to tape.

That is ALL just the way it should be

I am cramped for space ...

HUH! It can be a big problem. That IS! a problem. Funny or not, but I really hate and getting tired of hitting things around with my Strat's Headstock No damn twisin' in the "spotlight" for me here ..LOL

Korowai… WTH? )

- The People that are trully FREE, that is