An example of ears going 'blind'

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rob aylestone

rob aylestone

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In the topic about your ears getting tired - yesterday I was going to say it never happens to me, but I have been working on a track today and I've gone mix-blind.
It's a show track - so think female singer. I've been struggling a bit because the original is quite a powerful ballad, with quite loose timing so I did my usual thing, and took the original song, extracted the vocal and used that to try and do the mix - but while the song is pretty well done - I'd really appreciate some comments on if anything leaps out and annoys - I think I have a mistake or two in the string part and some piano bum notes to fix, but it is one of those songs where the drums suddenly appear - with long reverbs, but it's a tom heavy reverb and I can't decide if it's too much. There should also be some guitars at the end and I'm struggling with the right sound - nothing so far fits. I'd really like anybody who spots a mistake to shout. The vocal will of course go, so the timing of that doesn't matter - just what can be heard of the backing that is exposed.
I think the bass might need redoing, and some of the strings - but I am not hearing straight after about 6 hours of one song!
 

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Comparing your mix with the one from the original soundtrack, the tom/bass notes that come in a the 2 minute mark are way stronger than the original. It's got a "boom" to it that is out of balance with the strings and piano. Great for a disco dance floor, but doesn't fit the song. I tried putting it in Reaper and tried both a low shelf of about -8dB starting around 120, and a high pass at 100 with a bandwidth of 2 and both seemed to take some of the boom out without losing the weight. I prefer the low shelf.

I liked your little flourish at the end, but for some reason, the last little bit starting at 4:43 sounded more "synth piano" that the other parts. Don't know if you recorded it differently but the "space" seemed to be different.

There's a bit of a "blat" at 3:53, like it's supposed to be trumpets or something but it was indistinct.

Overall, I like the "clarity" of your recording.

BTW, Kudos for getting Gaga to stop by and do a scratch track for you. 😜
 
Rich, thanks. The 3.53 thing i just didnt notice! No idea what that might be. I must have heard it, but no. The end was an edit as it was way too long, but again, yesterday i missed the change. There are three pianos. One real, one processed and another doing twiddle, because im not that good a pianist. I wonder if in the edit to remove about 4 bars, ive dragged one to the wrong track? That would have been easy and i didnt notice.

Looks like I over cooked that louder bit coming in. I couldn't get it right and broke one of my own rules, i turned up the monitors. I never normally do that, but struggled with the volume of the start, compared to the loud bit, so i wonder if that was the reason. Yesterday I convinced myself it was OK, so your comments seem to make the tiredness thing a major factor. Im going to have to leave it today as ive got another job on, but then I’ll try to fix it.

Gaga refused a coffee because she said my kitchen was disgusting. Well, actually, that’s what my wife, sister and my friends have said, and is probably true.
 
rob aylestone said:
In the topic about your ears getting tired - yesterday I was going to say it never happens to me, but I have been working on a track today and I've gone mix-blind.
It's a show track - so think female singer. I've been struggling a bit because the original is quite a powerful ballad, with quite loose timing so I did my usual thing, and took the original song, extracted the vocal and used that to try and do the mix - but while the song is pretty well done - I'd really appreciate some comments on if anything leaps out and annoys - I think I have a mistake or two in the string part and some piano bum notes to fix, but it is one of those songs where the drums suddenly appear - with long reverbs, but it's a tom heavy reverb and I can't decide if it's too much. There should also be some guitars at the end and I'm struggling with the right sound - nothing so far fits. I'd really like anybody who spots a mistake to shout. The vocal will of course go, so the timing of that doesn't matter - just what can be heard of the backing that is exposed.
I think the bass might need redoing, and some of the strings - but I am not hearing straight after about 6 hours of one song!
Click to expand...
I really liked the composition and the piano part sounded perfect with the vocals...the drums coming later also made sense and flowed well with the vibe of the track. Maybe the only thing needing improvement would be the drum patterns. It seemed to me like the drums performance didn't complement the vocals as well as the piano. But, overall this was such a great song :)
 
I like the composition. The drums sounded OK to me, just too loud. At about 4:00, when the vocal gets louder, everything sounds closer to balanced, but the drums are still a little overpowering. Rich may have the right idea with the shelf and high pass. Everything else sounded pretty good.
 
When I remove the gaga voice - everything is very sort of exposed. With the voice present, Rich's idea worked, but with the voice muted, it seems a bit weak. I will keep going as soon as I have more time. Thanks folks!
 
Oh, I can do the process, I am just worried about the result. It’s a show track as opposed to a normal release, so one suggests doing one thing, but live? I’m not quite sure. I think fixing the exposed end is probably more important maybe.
 
I'll just speak before reading anyone else's comments.
When the strings first come in, she has finished singing. I think they should come in while she still sings, blending together for a moment.
Next thought is the strings voice could be better, sweeter.
Is that a bass guitar I hear at the 'bum-bum', as in 1 - 2 - bum-bum - 4? Maybe a bit of slurring and sliding on the bass would help.
It is a sparse piece, with plenty of room. Piling more guitars into it may clutter it up.
Last point is voice and overall level. I don't know what it is, dynamics perhaps. There's just a general flatness (not pitch) that stuck out toward the end.
Now I'll read the comments and realize how stupid my comments are.
 
Raymond - no, the comments are exactly what I'm wanting. I just heard it so many times I was adjusting and then re-adjusting and yet, some people spotted things I had totally missed. Like an odd noise that turned out to be a 'lost' chunk of a guitar, unmuted.

The singing will be a problem - Lady Gaga pulls the melody all over the place, and all I have done with her 'guide' is put each phrase roughly in the right place. I'm not sure how the cruise ship singer it is intended for will even do it. Historically, she has the dots for the show band, but the track for other uses - and she is quite er, flexible with timing for 'artistic' reasons. I have accepted this over the years I've been doing them. I agree on the bass part - I was already thinking of re-doing that. It is written quite rigidly.
 
Rob, if this is a backing track for a live show, once you get the musical timing right, maybe the thing to do would be to get the best mix and call it a day. If the singer is all over the place timing and tonally, I don't see how you can predict and mix for that unless she is there performing while you do it so you can make it fit her style.

On a side note, my favorite version of some of the big hits, were not the original artist. You may find a cover version that fits the singers style better to pattern your track after.
 
Best thing to do is walk away and let your ears rest. What I find is that it's not so much fatigue as a loss of perspective. The ears still hear, but the brain stops contextualizing the levels. Everything kind of get over analyzed and the listener's perspective loses to the mixer's perspective - almost like "lost in the weeds of the details".

I find if I just direct my brain elsewhere for a while and come back later, it's reset itself and I can listen as a listener again.
 
I am going to be in the minority here - I think the sound of the piano is wrong - the strings sound really good except when they under the vocal - they mush up under the vocal - I think that is more of a panning thing than an EQing bit - Drums are great and LOUD - I don’t think I would mess with them much if you switched the Piano sound - Good Vocalist - a little to under confident in the begining - but I’m not sure - the song has a bit of a Whitney Houston vibe to it - which I think needs to be explored more - but then again I’ve been mixing the last week - so maybe my ears are off.
 
I think maybe the piano comment is right - I'll try a different one. I'm getting stuck in a big circle.
 
If it's going to be a backing track, you probably have no clue what the actual quality and response capability of the playback system will be. I've never been on a cruise ship, so I don't have a clue what to expect. Will the system have a pair of 15" subs that go down to 20 or 30Hz, or does it roll off at 80-100?

I would be interested in hearing with and without vocals versions.
 
Ha! Exactly the problem. It could be on a pair of 12 or 15” plastic boxes on sticks, or a flown PA with lots of subs! Brings back memories of that recent topic where people were talking about reverb on a track. When i get a chance to fiddle, I will pop up the un-voxed version.
 
That's the snag - it's meant to be a big boom, and the original is covered in big reverb?
 
On the original the snare is covered in a big reverb, the kick is pretty dry which adds to the drama of the snare



you've also got the snare quite low and back in the mix, it should be front and centre and loud in it's moment
 
Right! I think i need to add the original track, without the voice and then refer to that pretty much continually start to finish. I think i fell into the trap of hearing a bit and assuming the EQ was static. That example, is very obvious so I should have noticed. Probably means i need to extract each separate drum to its own track. No global EQ and reverb, which is what i currently have.
 
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