Amplitube 4 question

Pinky said:
I've not played with mic positions a lot, but have a few times. I recall there's a mic gain setting, which I suspect might need to be lowered with a close placement (?). Not at my PC now so can't confirm.
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there is a fader for each mic (2 per cab), plus one for room and one for DI
 
In order to.avoid phase problems using multiple mics, it is necessary to make sure that the distant mic is at least 9db quieter than the close one. Or the main mic needs to be 9db louder than the other ones.
 
Farview said:
In order to.avoid phase problems using multiple mics, it is necessary to make sure that the distant mic is at least 9db quieter than the close one. Or the main mic needs to be 9db louder than the other ones.
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Ah. So if they simulated that appropriately, they could be why moving one mic way off sounds terrible. I have not tried using only one mic. It defaults to 2, so I've always used that setup. I like the 57 and then I pick another and move it around ... But always move it right back to nearly center and less than an inch from speaker.

Ok I'll try to work on some clips this afternoon actually. Thank you sir. Always helpful.
 
Farview said:
In order to.avoid phase problems using multiple mics, it is necessary to make sure that the distant mic is at least 9db quieter than the close one. Or the main mic needs to be 9db louder than the other ones.
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Multiple sources, yes. Multiple mics on one source, not really. The 9dB thing applies to bleed. Since both mics are intended to pick up the same source you don't really want to be stuck keeping one 9dB down anyway, you want to be able to blend them without that restriction. Well, that would be my preference.

If phase due to distance is a problem then I would align them by moving the far mic to the left on the timeline (or apply negative delay) until it sounded good, as in not phasey, mixed with the close mic at about equal volumes. Then they could be mixed as needed. And/or I'd simply nudge the far mic around until I found an out of phase condition that happens to sound good.
 
I'm going to stick with one mic, I think. For each cab. I'm trying to use 2 mics and blend them when I don't fully understand what I'm doing with one.

In a few mins I'll post some pics and clips of 3 mics at 3 distances each. I want to hear opinions on them, if anyone is up for it. Working on it now.
 
Although I was originally wondering the management of 2 mics, here are pics and clips of 1 mic. The images are only of the left guitar, though there are 2 guitars hard L and hard R. The right guitar mic is a mirror image of the left, for reference. The image shows mic placement and distance from speaker. Obviously, all mics are virtual and clones of popular guitar mics. Although 2 mics are shown in the image, the second mic is disabled. You are only hearing the mic shown furthest left in each pic.

sm57:

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bouldersoundguy said:
Multiple sources, yes. Multiple mics on one source, not really. The 9dB thing applies to bleed. Since both mics are intended to pick up the same source you don't really want to be stuck keeping one 9dB down anyway, you want to be able to blend them without that restriction. Well, that would be my preference.

If phase due to distance is a problem then I would align them by moving the far mic to the left on the timeline (or apply negative delay) until it sounded good, as in not phasey, mixed with the close mic at about equal volumes. Then they could be mixed as needed. And/or I'd simply nudge the far mic around until I found an out of phase condition that happens to sound good.
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It's not a real mic, it's the virtual mics inside the plugin. That's why I pointed out the 9db thing. The phase cancellation is what was making it sound bad when he moved one of the mics farther away.
There is no way to time align it in the plugin.
 
I have a third mic - re20 - let me know if you want to hear those clips. curious any thoughts on the 57 and R121 clips. Again, nothing blended there, they're both only 1 mic on each L and R cab.
 
Farview said:
There is no way to time align it in the plugin.
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I'd be surprised if there wasn't, plus this makes me think there is:

andrushkiwt said:
So, I take a look around inside Amplitube and notice that the microphone section has a fader for the raw DI signal, and above that fader is another pot for "phase". Miraculously, when I start adjusting that phase pot over the DI signal on just one of the two tracks, the whole thing starts sounding thicker and chunkier. More full.
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Hi Taras, for your mic/position samples, #1 positions seem good for an in your face sound, #3 seem more in the background. I'd probably use #1 on leads and some rhythms, #3 in a more busy mix. The closer positions seem to have more detail, I like that a little more personally.
 
easlern said:
Hi Taras, for your mic/position samples, #1 positions seem good for an in your face sound, #3 seem more in the background. I'd probably use #1 on leads and some rhythms, #3 in a more busy mix. The closer positions seem to have more detail, I like that a little more personally.
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I thought the 57 up close (1 position) had a lot of top end/brightness in it. like a fizzy sound, kind of. That's actually the position I've been using as a default.

Btw, not sure if I mentioned it, but those aren't preset positions...i have full control over where to place that mic. Those are just the 3 I used for a test.
 
Taras, comparing all your clips, the biggest difference I heard was between the two mics. I was surprised how little difference I heard between positions 1 and 3. I would expect it to be massive, but it really wasn't. Maybe if I used Amplitude I would start hearing subtle differences that weren't evident on first listen. At the tail end of each clip you had that palm muted part. If I were miking an amp, I would zoom right in on that section when choosing a mic position. If I were looking for clear, sharp, and percussive attack, I'd move the mic inward toward the dust cap. If I wanted fatter and softer, I'd move it out toward the edge. I'd expect to hear a big difference. Of the two mic options in those clips, I preferred the Royer.
 
Robus said:
Taras, comparing all your clips, the biggest difference I heard was between the two mics. I was surprised how little difference I heard between positions 1 and 3. I would expect it to be massive, but it really wasn't. Maybe if I used Amplitude I would start hearing subtle differences that weren't evident on first listen. At the tail end of each clip you had that palm muted part. If I were miking an amp, I would zoom right in on that section when choosing a mic position. If I were looking for clear, sharp, and percussive attack, I'd move the mic inward toward the dust cap. If I wanted fatter and softer, I'd move it out toward the edge. I'd expect to hear a big difference. Of the two mic options in those clips, I preferred the Royer.
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hey thanks, i was just wondering what you guys thought of this little test. I also did it so I could take time away from it and come back to listen to each clip and see if i noticed a difference. Yes, I used that section of the song so there would be two distinct playing styles in it - picking and muting.

I'm trying to understand the differences between positions and distance from the amp so I can get the sounds I want for heavy guitars, clear verse guitars, lead stuff, etc...

Right now, like I mentioned earlier, I default to position 1 for everything since it usually sounds (no matter the mic) the clearest and brightest. But I'm wondering if I should use more distance and outward more for a heavy rhythm part. Depends on mic, i know, but i'm wondering if there's some kind of rationale for positions in general.

thanks for the listen and comment. Maybe I'll put up the re20 pics and clips later. I also have: U87, 414, 441, double 57's, Md1b FET, and a couple others.
 
The way I think about the rationale is this. If the tone sounds pointy and tinny, I move the mic outward from the dust cap. If it sounds wooly, I move it inward. Small moves make a big difference. The default for me is right at the dust cap edge, on axis, and less than an inch from the grille cloth. There's no moving farther inward from there, so any adjustments will be outward. Two inches outward would be a big adjustment. If I had to generalize, I'd say more distorted tones tend to be miked inward for clarity. Cleaner tones might move outward for warmth.

However, the other thing is that I'm monitoring the guitar part in the mix, or as much of it as I've tracked up to that point. I've got a setup that lets me hear the details of the mix as I track, which is much harder if you are standing next to a loud amp with headphones on. So I'm not necessarily focused on the tone of the guitar I'm tracking at the moment, but rather how it affects the mix overall. As you know, I'm into blending guitars a lot. Some guitars will be heard louder, others softer, and others barely heard at all. Usually the softer a part will be in the mix, the more I'm prioritizing clarity.
 
On my sim I like to keep the mic centered and vary the distance for tone. Ended up doing the same thing the few times I mic'd a real amp. Just gets a little dull for me away from the center, probably down to the character of the guitar.

When I compared the real SM57 and RE20, I ended up preferring the SM57. It would be interesting to see if I feel the same way about the sim mics.
 
easlern said:
On my sim I like to keep the mic centered and vary the distance for tone. Ended up doing the same thing the few times I mic'd a real amp. Just gets a little dull for me away from the center, probably down to the character of the guitar.

When I compared the real SM57 and RE20, I ended up preferring the SM57. It would be interesting to see if I feel the same way about the sim mics.
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hmmm. what amp do you have? or are you using sims?

it would be cool to find someone with a Gibson who has an amp and mic that I also have in my sim, then do a comparison.
 
The sims I use most are supposed to be vox and orange I think (they don't use brand names in logic), the real amp is just a cheapie fender practice amp. So no way for me to do a comparison of real/sim amps unfortunately. I have a pretty good idea they wouldn't compare well though, even the practice amp had an edge on the logic sims after some twiddling.
 
easlern said:
The sims I use most are supposed to be vox and orange I think (they don't use brand names in logic), the real amp is just a cheapie fender practice amp. So no way for me to do a comparison of real/sim amps unfortunately. I have a pretty good idea they wouldn't compare well though, even the practice amp had an edge on the logic sims after some twiddling.
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i think you're underestimating Amplitube. A stock sim isn't a fair comparison to one of the most well-known and used sims. Plus, get it OUT of my hands and into the hands of someone with more experience, and I'm sure it would be closer than you might think
 
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