Amp modeler vs the real thing

  • Thread starter Thread starter therage!
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therage!

therage!

Wicked Machine
LOL, like this hasn’t been discussed to death!

I’ve used amp modeling for years and real amps. In the past few years I have mostly used amp modelers because the sound I got has been good. Recently I bought a new mixer and it’s onboard sound is superior to the 1010 I was using. I’ve also treated my room with Bass traps and a combination of acoustic foam. I’m hearing things I never heard before and even before treating my room I quickly picked up on the superior sonic qualities of my Yamaha mixer over the 1010.

I’ve gone back through some already completely mixed material and am hearing stuff that is just not quite there in the mix. What I have discovered is the amp modeled tracks are not sitting in the mix very well. I have done some re-tracking with a Fender tube amp and things just sit better. I know how to tweak a modeler and have done it for years but no matter what I do I cannot get it to sit in the mix the same way the real amp does.

I think it may be the combination of better A/D/D/A (really, the entire front to back circuitry) and room treatment are letting me finally hear the differences. I will always use modelers but I think more for getting down ideas and scratch tracks.
 
I have both. Boss GT-8 and a Fender Blues Jr. Both are good. Depends on the situation. Usually, I just run my modeller through the amp. I also have a Vox 4x12 cabinet I'll use from the Jr. output jack. You can get very good results with just a modeller. Like anything.
 
There are exceptions to everything.

But the exception that involves an amp modeler sounding better than the real thing ... is just extremely rare, from my experience.
 
Daisy said:
There are exceptions to everything.

But the exception that involves an amp modeler sounding better than the real thing ... is just extremely rare, from my experience.
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Well it's feasable that someone might be better at getting nice tones out of a modeller than they are with a nice tube amp. But that's more down to their ability than anything else.

Personally I've pulled some reasonably good tones out of a modeller, but it takes me a good hour everytime, and if I go back to it later there's always something I want to change. On the other hand it doesn't take an amazing amount of time at all getting a nice tone out of a good tube amp.

I know what I prefer. ;)
 
Ain't it weird???You mess with a modeler and record a track, then it doesn't lay in like you want it to. One thing I have learned to do is to do final tweaking while the song is playing. It seems to be the best way to get THE SOUND. Another way and maybe the best way is to leave the pod in its box and haul out the real stuff.



chazba
 
legionserial said:
Personally I've pulled some reasonably good tones out of a modeller, but it takes me a good hour everytime, and if I go back to it later there's always something I want to change. On the other hand it doesn't take an amazing amount of time at all getting a nice tone out of a good tube amp.
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An SM57 in front of my Fender DeVille is heaven!

One of the factors for me now is hearing previous work I’ve done with much better D/A and a treated room. But it’s not just with amp modeled sound either. :eek:

Now if I could get rid of that tube amp hum/noise/ :D
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
What is "the real thing"?

G.
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there ya' go.
Nowadays modelers are as much the real thing as an amp. Yes, they sound different.
Yes, I prefer an amp.
No, none of my amps except maybe my Marshall 6101 is gonna sound like a high gain amp so for that kind of sound I'm likely better off with a modeler even if I just run it into an amp.
I've seen the same sort of 'discovery' only the other way around where someone decides their new modeler does better for them.
Often it's a simple matter of something being new or different makes it seem to sound better.
For live use I'd go with an amp over any of my modelers and I own a bunch of them.
For recording I'm not so sure. I have heard modelers in recordings where i couldn't tell and I definitely have ears and I've recorded stuff with a modeler that had people asking what kind of amp that was.
 
therage! said:
Those things the modelers are modeling/:D
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Well, if one defines how "good" something sounds by how much it sounds like the original, then it's a silly question. How can one expect a simulation to sound more like the original than the original?

A major reason most folks that don't like amp modelers don't like amp modelers is because they expect that the originals are how things are "supposed to sound". The only judgement as to whether an artifical sound actually sounds good is if it happens to sound like the specific type of artificial sound they've been accustomed to.

Modelers sound a lot better when the listener doesn't know it's a modeler (Lt. Bob is right about that.) Because, instead of using ears to determine if something actually intrinsically sounds pleasurable, they are letting their expectations tell them that it's the "real thing". When that illusion is burst, people's ears tend to become more critical, no longer judging as to whether a particular sound is pleasurable, but rather whether it meets some artifical bar called "the real thing".

And finally, what's so "real" about an overdriven electronic amplifier and electromechanical transucer loudspeaker to begin with? Hard to come up with a more artificial sound than that short of using analog synthesis as the source instead of a guitar with pickups.

G.
 
You cant beat the real thing no matter how hard you try. With amp modelling, you can yield good and sometimes comparables sounds, but when compared to the real thing, the Timbrel difference is quite noticeable. I would go with the real thig for a final product if you can. Amp modelling is good for lesser project and acts as a great compositional tool
 
It all depends on your background and your idea of what something is and is supposed to sound like. My idea of the electric guitar is a solid body or semihollow guitar plugged into a tube screamer and into a nice 40 watt Super Reverb cranked to 8, perhaps with lower wattage speakers in the cabinet. It's power and tension and MACHINE noise. It's what I've been listening to my whole life, and in some part what my ancestors have been listening to since the industrialization of Poland! A Variax into a POD doesn't even constitute a guitar for me, at that point it's like calling the Windows Narrator a good vocal sound. It's like Anthony Hopkins in the new Beowulf CGI vs. the real Sir Anthony Hopkins!

Consider that as human beings, we can perceive things we can't explain. For some reason an amp and speaker pushed to the point of exploding, in all it's hissing, humming, rumbling glory, even on a recording though one puny 50 year old mic, sounds infinitely better to me.

Look up the 'uncanny valley'. It's exactly what's happening. The modeller is getting close but it's leaving out the tiny little details that let your brain know that it's 'for real', just as a digital recreation of your mother's face wouldn't strike you in the same way at all because right now, the tiny details avoid us.
 
I've recorded some tracks with tubes amps that sounded great, and some that didn't. I've recorded with some modelers that sounded great, and some that didn't. Sometimes stuff works, and sometimes it doesn't
Now, are you going to get a modeler to sound like Eddie Van Halen's guitar did on his first album? Nope. Even Eddie's sound went to crap when he started using the speaker sims. Oh my my... remember that awful chorused-up buzzy tone he went to for a while? That's because he stopped using speakers.
Y'all would laugh if you seen my rig... I've got my modeler running into the line-input of my Class A tube amp, output into an isolation cabinet so I can crank the amp as loud as I want, and not piss the sound man off. (Iso cab=a speaker fully enclosed in a box, with an SM57 inside)

Peace!

~Shawn
 
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