Amp Miking - SM57 + AT4033

[Baz97]

How about a SM-57(close) and a AT-4033(room)?

What kind of sound would this give me?, Would this pair be suitable for recording in my bedroom, and could you suggest a better alternative in the same price range.

Also my amp is about 30W, I dont like playing my amp very loud, and I'll be recording clean (not distortion).

 

[octoruss]

Baz,
this should work fine, but you really don't need the 4033 unless you're trying to achieve a specific effect. Most people find a SM57 up close provides great clean results. A 4033 placed in the room (especially a small bedroom) will pick up a fair bit of reverb, which may or may not be a good thing. I have tried this befroe, but generally come back to just a SM57 close up, slightly off axis.

 

[Baz97]

oh, i see.....i'm a solo artist and I was only going to be recording music with guitar tracks and nothing else - I though a condencer would help give me a fuller sound - should I perhaps get a pair of 57's so?

I also didnt think the 4033 would pick up much wall reverb because its cardioid...

 

[cominginsecond]

I also didnt think the 4033 would pick up much wall reverb because its cardioid...

It won't pick up as much reverb as if you were using an omni, but it will pick up a noticeable amount. I would only recommend this mic setup if you have a halfway decent sounding room. If you don't like the sound of your room's reverb, stick with close mic'ing your amp (the 57 or the 4033, but not both).

 

[Dan Merrill]

Personally, I love that combo. 57 on the speaker, 4033 somewhere else in the room. mix to taste. I have found a few times when the room mic actually turned out to be the desired sound. Plus you can always just mute the 4033 track and use digital reverb on the 57 track if needed.

 

[Stefan Elmblad]

I agree with Dan, if you got the tracks then record both mics.
You can always mute one or another later if you don't like it.

 

[octoruss]

That's all good advice. There's no "standard", although most people would simply mic an amp with a 57 and leave it at that. But I have certianly seen an amp miced with a 57, a condensor to pick up the room sound, and even a small diaphragm placed near the pickups to get the sound of the pick hitting the string. Properly mixed (with the pick sound highlighted) it was a very interesting and unique mix.

 

[Baz97]

My amp is in my garage at the moment, so I just went out there to see how it sounds in a small space. I dont play my amp loud ( my ears are pretty sensitive), maybe just slightly higher than when I'd listen to the radio. Anyway the point is that I dont hear any reverb coming from the walls - and if there is, it certainly doesnt do anything to take away from my sound. Are microphones more sensitive to wall reverb? - cardioid that is.
And will I need to cranck my amp when I'm recording?

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Baz,

First off... I guarantee that there is SOME type of reverb happening in the room... the garage might have less noticeable reflections due to things hanging on the walls etc, but its still there. I'd guess that the closer to the floor (assuming a cement floor) you move your ears, the more you might hear.

As for the amp volume... that really depends on the sounds you want... some people like the sounds of "more air" being pushed, some don't. It also depends on how clean your amp is, compared to how clean your mic pre's are...

Bottom line... try it... if you don't like it... try it a different way. You'd be surprised at how many cool sounds happen by mistake or by experimenting. Use your ears more than you use "the methods of others".

btw - another "trick" for your amp in a small room..... SM57 on the grill of axis... 4033 RIGHT BEHIND the amp (assuming you are using a combo amp) with the phase reversed. The 4033 will have a nice bassy sound without having to use it as a room mic (ie - you don't have to have a great sounding room).

Velvet Elvis

 

[Baz97]

If I dont notice the wall reverb, will the mic? I stand about two meters (2 yards) in front of my amp when I'm playing and there's a wonderfull stereo sound. But this is probably cos im not playing very loud, with respect to reverb - the sound is very full all the same.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Baz,

Let me clarify something for you... what I think you might be thinking of as reverb versus what I'm talking about are two different things.

That "wonderful stereo sound" you describe is in fact the presence of reverb in the room.... what you are hearing is the reflection of your sound off the environment around you (as opposed the close miking the speaker, which will simply hear what is coming directly from the amp).

If you *like* the sound of that room, then by all means try using the cond. mic as a room mike... it will help recreate that environment on tape... although it will not sound exactly as your ears are hearing it (due to many factors.. two ears, frequency ranges of mics etc).

What you might find is that you prefer the room sound, and NOT the close mic sound... so maybe in your case, start with a room mic (like the 4033) and the add in the close mic SM57 for definition (rather than the other way around).

Velvet Elvis

 

[Baz97]

Thats got me thinking Elvis. I went back out the the garage and played while moving around - 1 meter(=yards) away from amp to about 4 or so. The sound was consistent through out, i.e. the sound I want to capture was present throughout the room in front of the amp. What would that suggest?, go with close miking or room. Anyway, next I'll try playing in different rooms to see what happens.

Also I dont have any mics yet, and i've no way of renting any either - so thats why im tring to figure out what im after before i spend the last few bucks of my recording budget.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Baz,

Is the garage fairly small? a one car garage perhaps?

If you were to redo your test, but this time move up and down instead of to and from the amp, what do you hear then? as you move in and out of the focal point of the speaker, you should notice a change in sound.

What you might be hearing, is that if the garage is small enough, and you are consistenly off the focal point of the speaker (IE - you can't move far enough back or low enough in the garage for the sound to be pointed directly at you), you most likely would hear a similar sound (since you'd be listening to room reflections pretty much instead of direct sound).

Velvet Elvis

 

[Baz97]

The garage if 4 meters by 10. (meters = yards)

There is definitely a change in volume as you walk across perpendicular from the direction the amp is pointing - the amp is also sitting on top of a chair and the back panel is screwed off. The amp is a Vantage 15W solid state combo. I really like the sound I'm hearing with my ears, and only wish I could capture it.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Take a nice condensor mic and put it where you think things sound best... face the mic somewhere between where your ear is and where your eyes are looking (because your ears hear from the side, but the also pick up from the front too).

Do everything you can to put the mic in the same position as your ear and it should be close to what you are hearing.

Velvet Elvis

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Aine,

The 4033 would be a great choice of mics for that application. There are several that would do the job, depending on your particular preferences for sound.

One thing I like about the 4033 is that it is a fairly hot mic... it will pick up the room nicely without having to crank the preamp to the point of adding a ton of unwanted noise to the mix.

I personally use my 4033 more for guitars and a SP C3 for vocals.

Velvet Elvis

 

[Baz97]

That sounds cool Velvet

Would a 4033 be your definition of a nice condencer? - or would you have something else in mind...

 

[Baz97]

I think I've gone full circle today Elvis - I might end up buying both mics yet, LOL.

What are your thought on stereo....I'll only have guitar tracks in my mix...i could double tracking i guess. My music is basically layered guitar melodies.

 

[chessrock]

Would a 4033 be your definition of a nice condencer?

I'd say that's a fitting definition.

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=53897

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Baz,

I usually double track guitars... I've found it to be more pleasing than using multiple mics and the same guitar.

The variation in sound is nice from using multiple mics, but I also like the variation in playing (not being able to play a part EXACTLY the same twice) that double tracking adds... gives the listener a little something more to listen to... but others opinions may very.

I personally like a thicker, tighter sound... so close micing with double tracking is usually how I go.

If I had a big room with a nice sound to it, I might choose to go for multiple mics on a single instrument and allow the differences in the two mics to add the depth to the track.

Either way works... its simply which of the two sounds you are looking to go after.... tight and thick, or natural and spacious.

Velvet Elvis