Amp Heads?

[_DK]

Any amp-heads on this forum?
I couldn't find a suitable forum at homerecording, so I'll ask here.
I'm looking for an 8 ohm speaker for my 50s amp. The one I have right now is a 10" alnico. I believe it's Jensen, but the label's not on it. The amp is 12 or 14 watts. All tube, of course.
My question is, what would be the best speaker? Should I use a bigger one (12") for recording? What about wattage? If I choose a 60 watt, would it sound different?

 

[THX1136]

In a general sense a speaker with higher power handling should last a good long while. It may have a "tigher" sound since it will most likely have a beefier magnetic structure and voice coil. Speaker size is really a matter of taste imho. I know of folks who favor 10s, 12s and 15s. It's usually due to the sound they are trying to get. 10s sound brighter, 15s are rounder and 12s land in the middle most of the time. THERE ARE ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS. I can't remember the manufacturer right now, but there is someone making replica alnico Jensens which might be a good choice for you.

Also the sound is influenced by the enclosure. A particular size speaker might sound completely different in a closed back compared to an open. The best choice is up to you and your ears. If a particular speaker gives you the sound you're looking for go for it regardless of what the "experts" say. You are the one that has to be pleased.

 

[_DK]

Thanks, THX!
As I thought, it won't be easy... but as I don't have any speakers to try, I'll have to buy the first one I come across.
I could be wrong, but I've heard reading somewhere that the more wattage the speaker has, the harder the tubes will be pushing it, thus the crunchier the sound will be. Is that true?

 

[rayc]

The guitar and bass section has never ending threads about speakers, attenuators, amps, etc etc.
That said THX1136 is right on the money.

 

[THX1136]

I'm not sure about that. I won't say it isn't true, but I don't understand how the power handling capability about the speaker can cause the amp to 'work' harder. I could see a difference if you are talking different impedances. That would 'stress' an amp in different ways.

I guess the biggest difference you might notice is you would be getting more amp/preamp distortion and less speaker distortion with a speaker with a high power rating. Or saying it another way, to get distortion you'd be getting it easier from the amp/preamp instead of overpowering the speaker (speaker distortion due to the voice coil bottoming out) given your amp has around 14 watts peak output.

 

[THX1136]

Another thought: Is your 10" shot? If not you may find it will to do just fine in a recording situation. A friend of mine liked using a little Fender Champ with a blown Radio Snack speaker for recording bass. The volume was kept low and the amp close miked and he was able to get a great sound from this non-traditional setup.

I've heard of the same kind of application using a Pignose amp - the little battery powered ones - for recording monster guitar parts. It is quite surprising what you can accomplish using a "wrong" approach. As always your ears will let you know what works and what does not for your particular application.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Thanks, THX!
As I thought, it won't be easy... but as I don't have any speakers to try, I'll have to buy the first one I come across.
I could be wrong, but I've heard reading somewhere that the more wattage the speaker has, the harder the tubes will be pushing it, thus the crunchier the sound will be. Is that true?

A speaker doesn't have any wattage. It has a wattage handling capacity.
A speaker that has a higher wattage rating won't make an amp work any harder. However, a speaker with a higher wattage rating might take more watts to get it to 'break up' so if speaker distortion is a part of your sound, then you're going to want a lower wattage speaker ... obviously it needs to be able to handle 50 watts in general although plenty of people might use a 30 watt speaker on something like that to get the speaker to breakup.
It just depends on what you want.
Fofr instance I'm building a couple of single 10 cabs for my Epi Valve Jr. to gig with. Since it's very low power, one of my main requirements is high efficiency so I can get enough volume. Also, since the amp is dirty by nature, don't want/need any speaker breakup 'cause it's gonna be dirty anyway.
Those are the kinds of things you need to look at.

 

[_DK]

Another thought: Is your 10" shot? If not you may find it will to do just fine in a recording situation. A friend of mine liked using a little Fender Champ with a blown Radio Snack speaker for recording bass. The volume was kept low and the amp close miked and he was able to get a great sound from this non-traditional setup.

I've heard of the same kind of application using a Pignose amp - the little battery powered ones - for recording monster guitar parts. It is quite surprising what you can accomplish using a "wrong" approach. As always your ears will let you know what works and what does not for your particular application.

No, my 10" is absolutely fine, I'm just thinking of getting a wider sound with a 12". I've tried miking front & back at the same time and I think I'm starting to get what I want

 

[_DK]

A speaker doesn't have any wattage. It has a wattage handling capacity.
A speaker that has a higher wattage rating won't make an amp work any harder. However, a speaker with a higher wattage rating might take more watts to get it to 'break up' so if speaker distortion is a part of your sound, then you're going to want a lower wattage speaker ... obviously it needs to be able to handle 50 watts in general although plenty of people might use a 30 watt speaker on something like that to get the speaker to breakup.
It just depends on what you want.
Fofr instance I'm building a couple of single 10 cabs for my Epi Valve Jr. to gig with. Since it's very low power, one of my main requirements is high efficiency so I can get enough volume. Also, since the amp is dirty by nature, don't want/need any speaker breakup 'cause it's gonna be dirty anyway.
Those are the kinds of things you need to look at.

Thanks! I think I got the theory now

 

[ofajen]

If you're interested in the Jensen reissues, here is where I bought my P10R-8 a few years ago.

http://www.vintagespeaker.com/

Apparently, now you have to login with email and password to look at their site. A Google search will pull up a few other places.

Anyway, it's a good sounding speaker. I like recording with a single 10" speaker driven by a pair of EL-84s or something else with about that power. The single speaker has a focused image without any multiple speaker interference effects. It gets just loud enough when it distorts to feel satisfying, but not so loud that I want to be in another room.

Cheers,

Otto