Am I getting ripped off ?
- Thread starter Scoot
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dgatwood
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Sorry about hijacking the thread but...This Statement is COMPLETELY False!
That rule has served me pretty well thus far.... Feel free to point out exceptions, but it holds very well across every industry I've applied it to with remarkably few exceptions.
He could ya know..............
I could go on too but I don't think it's really necessary. If that rule has served you well thus far that's great...but you are going to miss out on some wonderful microphones (and other products) with that way of thinking. BTW, this isn't some kind of personal attack dgatwood (hope it didn't come off that way) I just saw your post and felt like I needed to reply.
ausrock
Well-known member
Scoot,
It just occured to me that I have an Apex 430 LD condenser mic in my cabinet that I haven't used for a long time and don't need and while it wouldn't be quite as cheap as buying a Behringer and it does need a new shockmount, it would probably be a "better" mic.
They have been discontinued by Apex but the local distributor/importer still shows them as available at $335AU RRP and they're identical to the more expensive 420, the only difference being the 420 had a "pad" switch...........the truth is, so does the 430, they just didn't tell anyone that it was inside the mic on the pcb
, so in reality, it takes about a minute to open the mic, hit the switch and close the mic up again.
Anyways, while the mic isn't a high end mic (it is fairly typical of most of the mics manufactured in China) and may be a relatively cheap entry into the world of condenser mic. Actually, I should get it out and put it through it's paces just to make sure that 1) it's still OK and 2) that I don't really need it
It just occured to me that I have an Apex 430 LD condenser mic in my cabinet that I haven't used for a long time and don't need and while it wouldn't be quite as cheap as buying a Behringer and it does need a new shockmount, it would probably be a "better" mic.
They have been discontinued by Apex but the local distributor/importer still shows them as available at $335AU RRP and they're identical to the more expensive 420, the only difference being the 420 had a "pad" switch...........the truth is, so does the 430, they just didn't tell anyone that it was inside the mic on the pcb
, so in reality, it takes about a minute to open the mic, hit the switch and close the mic up again.Anyways, while the mic isn't a high end mic (it is fairly typical of most of the mics manufactured in China) and may be a relatively cheap entry into the world of condenser mic. Actually, I should get it out and put it through it's paces just to make sure that 1) it's still OK and 2) that I don't really need it
dgatwood
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I have to ignore the C12, as it was discontinued more than a decade before I was born. The last time they made it, my parents were still in grad school. They're retiring this year....
In general, though, AKG has seemed extremely inconsistent to me, both for dynamics and condensers. They have a few exceptional mics that stand out as really wonderful, a fair number of absolute stinkers, but mostly a lot of mics that are decent but not spectacular. They really don't fit well within my rule because they aren't exceptional across the board in either area. *shrugs*
The C414 clips I've heard haven't impressed me particularly, though that may have been the source.
The C1000 clips I've heard have just seemed harsh. The AKG overhead choral condensers, AKG podium mics, etc. that I've heard/used have all been at beast mediocre, at worst downright tinny. I would not be at all surprised if their C12 reissue were good, though. For that price, it had better be. In dynamics, the D112 is a great kick mic and the D190E does very well on my snare. On the flip side, the AKG dynamic vocal mics I've used are on the exact opposite end of the quality spectrum, providing no real body to the sound.
dgatwood
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Well, I don't use that as a hard and fast rule that keeps me from considering a product if a lot of people think it is wonderful. Heck, even Behringer builds an exceptional product once in a while. You just have weed through an awful lot of crap to get there. The rule just provides a good guess sight unseen of what a product is likely to be like in the absence of reviews or other evidence to the contrary....
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Well, I disagree on some points with the majority. First, I don't know what the exchange rate or the market is in Australia, but it is clear to me that audio gear costs more there than in the US, a lot more. In the US, on ebay, a brand new C2000B can be had for about $250, and a C1000S for about $200. Both are a lot less used.
Secondly, regarding the mics, I'm not a fan of C1000S, which I think makas a pretty good nightstick or marital aid. It is a kind of harsh, optional battery-powered specialty mic which is fair on high pitched percussion, like tambourine or triangle, and I wouldn't select it for acoustic guitar. For God's sake, don't sing into it!
On the other hand, C2000B is a little understood, greatly underated studio workhorse which is fair on vocals and acoustic guitar, a rather good drum overhead, and iis truly excellent on toms, djembe, and absolutely rocks on guitar cabs. It usually comes with the H100 or H85 shock mount, which is extremely well made and versatile. In short, I would look for a new or used C2000B at the best price that can be managed in Australia. It will not disappoint. Made in Austria, not China, it doesn't sound like a cheap chinese mic. I would avoid the C1000S at all costs. I seriously wonder how many of the people that are dissing this pair of mics as trash have ever used a C2000B. I've got several thousand dollars worth of mics, and my C2000B sees quite a bit of duty. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. I have to admit, though, given the relative cash value in Australia, I'd consider Rode, maybe an NT1a and an NT5. Good luck. -Richie
Secondly, regarding the mics, I'm not a fan of C1000S, which I think makas a pretty good nightstick or marital aid. It is a kind of harsh, optional battery-powered specialty mic which is fair on high pitched percussion, like tambourine or triangle, and I wouldn't select it for acoustic guitar. For God's sake, don't sing into it!
On the other hand, C2000B is a little understood, greatly underated studio workhorse which is fair on vocals and acoustic guitar, a rather good drum overhead, and iis truly excellent on toms, djembe, and absolutely rocks on guitar cabs. It usually comes with the H100 or H85 shock mount, which is extremely well made and versatile. In short, I would look for a new or used C2000B at the best price that can be managed in Australia. It will not disappoint. Made in Austria, not China, it doesn't sound like a cheap chinese mic. I would avoid the C1000S at all costs. I seriously wonder how many of the people that are dissing this pair of mics as trash have ever used a C2000B. I've got several thousand dollars worth of mics, and my C2000B sees quite a bit of duty. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. I have to admit, though, given the relative cash value in Australia, I'd consider Rode, maybe an NT1a and an NT5. Good luck. -Richie
dgatwood
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Yeah, but why buy a filet mignon and a dog turd for twice the price of the filet mignon?
Okay, I'm exaggerating pretty dramatically for comic effect, but it seems more logical to buy a pair of 2000s than a 2000 and a 1000. Heck, it would seem more logical to buy a pair of even the much-maligned 1000s than a mixed set like that, as at least you have a single sound from both of the mics even if it is a bit on the brittle side....
Just my $0.02 (or $0.022 AUD).
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Yo Dgatwood! As you can see, I'm not disagreeing with you. It just seems to me that the 2000 got lumped in with C1000 and C3000 (neither of which do I care for). Folks figured if a C3000 cost 300 bucks and sucked, then a C2000 for $200 must suck more. But- it doesn't suck. It's the only mic in the whole series that is worth owning, IMO. (note that that does *not* include C451 and the C414 series, which have plenty of uses.) That's why C2000B is still around, in spite of the Perception series, which are OK, but sound like one more Chinese mic. Bundling the C1000 with other mics in so-called studio paks is just AKG's way of trying to unload C1000's, C2000's, and C3000's, because the whole series didn't sell that well. The point is, that almost nobody that has used C2000 thinks it sucks. They just used the somewhat more popular C1000 and C3000, decided they suck (I tend to agree), and lumped C2000 into the same group. Seriously-*stick it in front of a cab*. As far as that pair of mics, I wouldn't do it, either. I'd go find a used C2000, or like you say, a pair of them, which make very good overheads. Or- given Australian prices, find the right Rode for the job.-Richie
And C2000 isn't Filet Mignon. It's a good cheap steak.
And C2000 isn't Filet Mignon. It's a good cheap steak.
ausrock
Well-known member
Ritchie,
The current exchange rate is approx., $0.92AU = $1.00US so unlike 3 or 4 years ago there's not much difference, that said, a lot of the Aust., importer/distributors still persist in bleeding every last cent out of the fact that there's shipping costs and import duties, plus until the advent of the internet, consumers were not as knowledgeable as to the prices in the US, once people learnt that dealing with and shipping from o/seas was no longer an issue, the importers probably started feeling the pinch. One of the reasons I stand by Alan Hyatt and his products is that he was really the first "manufacturer" that I'm aware of that listened to what we had to say, and then attempted to pressure his Aust., distributor to reduce his ridiculous local pricing and bring it in close to the US list prices. Gradually, others are making a token effort.
RODE in Aust........:
NT-1A $335AU on local ebay........Musicians Friend....(list) $369US
NT-2A $599AU on ebay...............MF..... (list) $699US
The current exchange rate is approx., $0.92AU = $1.00US so unlike 3 or 4 years ago there's not much difference, that said, a lot of the Aust., importer/distributors still persist in bleeding every last cent out of the fact that there's shipping costs and import duties, plus until the advent of the internet, consumers were not as knowledgeable as to the prices in the US, once people learnt that dealing with and shipping from o/seas was no longer an issue, the importers probably started feeling the pinch. One of the reasons I stand by Alan Hyatt and his products is that he was really the first "manufacturer" that I'm aware of that listened to what we had to say, and then attempted to pressure his Aust., distributor to reduce his ridiculous local pricing and bring it in close to the US list prices. Gradually, others are making a token effort.
RODE in Aust........:
NT-1A $335AU on local ebay........Musicians Friend....(list) $369US
NT-2A $599AU on ebay...............MF..... (list) $699US
Last edited:
dgatwood
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Scoot
New member
Scoot,
It just occured to me that I have an Apex 430 LD condenser mic in my cabinet that I haven't used for a long time and don't need and while it wouldn't be quite as cheap as buying a Behringer and it does need a new shockmount, it would probably be a "better" mic.
They have been discontinued by Apex but the local distributor/importer still shows them as available at $335AU RRP and they're identical to the more expensive 420, the only difference being the 420 had a "pad" switch...........the truth is, so does the 430, they just didn't tell anyone that it was inside the mic on the pcb
Anyways, while the mic isn't a high end mic (it is fairly typical of most of the mics manufactured in China) and may be a relatively cheap entry into the world of condenser mic. Actually, I should get it out and put it through it's paces just to make sure that 1) it's still OK and 2) that I don't really need it
Keep me posted mate. Meanwhile I'll try and work out how this Zoom operates (should keep me amused for weeks
)beyerdynamic is most certainly an exception.
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Well, Dgatwood, the only statement you have made about AKG that I fully agree with is that they are remarkably inconsistent. They have built a huge number of models over the years. Very few are truly great, but some are very good, some are OK, and some really do suck. Of course, they have to be compared at their price point to whatever else is available at the time they are made. Many old timers have great respect for the old C12, and many of those same old timers dislike the reissue. I've never used either one- too rich for my blood.
As far as their dynamic vocal mics having no body, that is one of the areas where they have produced some real winners and some real losers. I am a big fan of D190, D320, D690, D770, and D3800 tripower. I think D770 is one of the most versatile cheap dynamic mics ever made, like an Austrian SM57. D12 and D112 have proven themselves as low frequency standards, and the D112 is a better vocal mic than most people realize.
Among their condensers, C2000B, C451, C535, C414 are all very good mics, especially the C414, which has impressed enough engineers and producers to find it's way onto more Grammy winning tracks than Australia has Dingos.
The Perception series compares well to everybody else's entry-level Chinese condensers, but that's all they are.
The latest crop of AKG dynamics doesn't sound as good to me as the older AKG dynamics, and the price is going up. On the other hand, I bought my D770's brand new on ebay for $50 each, and my D3800 brand new at Guitar Center for under $100 with the flight case.
My conclusion is that AKG is a *huge* company that produces mics that are winners, and mics that are losers, and the price often has nothing to do with whether they are any good or not. Beats the hell out of me. I'm pretty sure that I have no use for C1000, C3000, D880, D77, D88. C4000 I don't know about. I've never used one, but I've heard mostly good reviews. I suspect that may be one more mic that got lumped in with C3000 and C1000s. The difference between C2000 and C4000, though, is that C4000 is a $500 mic, and has to be compared against some better competition. I bought my C2000's for $100 each, and I still use them quite often. What the hell?-Richie
As far as their dynamic vocal mics having no body, that is one of the areas where they have produced some real winners and some real losers. I am a big fan of D190, D320, D690, D770, and D3800 tripower. I think D770 is one of the most versatile cheap dynamic mics ever made, like an Austrian SM57. D12 and D112 have proven themselves as low frequency standards, and the D112 is a better vocal mic than most people realize.
Among their condensers, C2000B, C451, C535, C414 are all very good mics, especially the C414, which has impressed enough engineers and producers to find it's way onto more Grammy winning tracks than Australia has Dingos.
The Perception series compares well to everybody else's entry-level Chinese condensers, but that's all they are.
The latest crop of AKG dynamics doesn't sound as good to me as the older AKG dynamics, and the price is going up. On the other hand, I bought my D770's brand new on ebay for $50 each, and my D3800 brand new at Guitar Center for under $100 with the flight case.
My conclusion is that AKG is a *huge* company that produces mics that are winners, and mics that are losers, and the price often has nothing to do with whether they are any good or not. Beats the hell out of me. I'm pretty sure that I have no use for C1000, C3000, D880, D77, D88. C4000 I don't know about. I've never used one, but I've heard mostly good reviews. I suspect that may be one more mic that got lumped in with C3000 and C1000s. The difference between C2000 and C4000, though, is that C4000 is a $500 mic, and has to be compared against some better competition. I bought my C2000's for $100 each, and I still use them quite often. What the hell?-Richie