Am I doing this right?

[sausy1981]

Hi guys I was just wondering if this procedure I use when I start a mix is correct, I'm using a br800 as an interface into sonar producer x1,
1. I put all my faders to zero and adjust the gain on each channel(using the input trim knob on the daw mixer) so that the peaks hit -6db, I generally dont have to adjust much as I pay careful attention to my signal when recording.

2. Then using the pro channel strip on the sonar x1 mixer I put in my high pass filters on instruments that dont need any low end, i.e. acoustic guitar @ 80hz, or bass guitar @ 30hz etc etc

3. After this I go through each track using REQ from waves to further work on the frequencies that need working on, except for the drum tracks, I use the sonar x1 percussion strip to process them.

4. After this I then do a quick level and pan mix, and listen to were I need some compression, which I'll do with RCOMP on whatever trcks need it, mainly vocals and bass guitar but sometimes others, I also do parallel compression on my drums.

5. I then start adding effects such as reverb and delay and tweak where I need to, the problem I have most with effects is with vocals, I use delay with vocals using a very short delay with little or no feedback, I was wondering if I should add a little reverb aswell.

At the moment I wanna be certain I'm doing things right as this is how I've done things for a long time now, but over the last year I've tried to gain more knowledge from the net and reading books and the more I seem to learn the more I seem to doubt how I'm doing things.
Thanks for your help guys, much appreciated.

 

[gecko zzed]

IT's not so much a matter of it being right or wrong, but more whether it sounds good or bad.

Are you happy with the sound you get? If so, there is no need to change.

Could you be happier? Probably. In which case you can try other things.

The danger in following a set course of actions is that you get locked into a pattern, and may miss out on possibilities that exist outside that pattern.

 

[Massive Master]

1. I put all my faders to zero and adjust the gain on each channel(using the input trim knob on the daw mixer) so that the peaks hit -6db, I generally dont have to adjust much as I pay careful attention to my signal when recording.

You're probably tracking too hot, you're definitely mixing too hot.

Otherwise, yeah, everything else is pretty much subjective.

 

[RAMI]

The right answers above.

I find it strange that you're so regimented about certain things. The song itself should dictate what's needed or not needed.

For example:

I put in my high pass filters on instruments that dont need any low end, i.e. acoustic guitar @ 80hz, or bass guitar @ 30hz etc etc

Why are you deciding that certain instruments don't need low end before even beginning to mix the song. And on top of that, BASS GUITAR "doesn't need low end"???

I use delay with vocals using a very short delay with little or no feedback, I was wondering if I should add a little reverb aswell.

First of all, nobody here can you tell you if you should add reverb or not, that's impossible. Why don't you try adding reverb and decide if it sounds good. Also, you ALWAYS use a short delay with no feedback"? Why would you trap yourself into always doing that? For a slower song, you might want a long delay with lots of feedback. Or, for another song, you might a mdium delay with some feedback. There's no reason to ALWAYS do something a certain way, and it's impossible for anyone to tell you what you should do without hearing the song in question. Even after hearing a song in question, it still only comes down to personal preference.

 

[aaronmcoleman]

tons of things change based on the song. so are you doing it right? sure if you like it, no if you don't.

try tracking around -18 to leave yourself room to mix and not worry about clipping.

try different EQs and Comps. I think the waves renaissance stuff is supposed to have some character. sometimes a more transparent comp and EQ will make a more subtle difference and sound different.

Also, one thing to look into, when you HPF things like guitars, try different settings. I HPF a lot higher than 80 sometimes.

In short, try some different things. There is no correct order or set way of doing things.

 

[sausy1981]

You're probably tracking too hot, you're definitely mixing too hot.

Otherwise, yeah, everything else is pretty much subjective.

Cool, So if -6db is too hot what should I track and mix with, I've been reading that somewhere between -15db and -10db is ok but will that not make my mix sound lifeless? The br800 I'm using allows me to record 24 bit so thats what I use? And after I track what levels should I have in the mixer on the daw, the same as I track them??? At -15 to -10? It'd be cool to get this right?

 

[sausy1981]

The right answers above.

I find it strange that you're so regimented about certain things. The song itself should dictate what's needed or not needed.

For example:

Why are you deciding that certain instruments don't need low end before even beginning to mix the song. And on top of that, BASS GUITAR "doesn't need low end"???

First of all, nobody here can you tell you if you should add reverb or not, that's impossible. Why don't you try adding reverb and decide if it sounds good. Also, you ALWAYS use a short delay with no feedback"? Why would you trap yourself into always doing that? For a slower song, you might want a long delay with lots of feedback. Or, for another song, you might a mdium delay with some feedback. There's no reason to ALWAYS do something a certain way, and it's impossible for anyone to tell you what you should do without hearing the song in question. Even after hearing a song in question, it still only comes down to personal preference.

I suppose I was being a bit general with my post, I should explain that I use th high pass filter on intruments in the mix that I know will need the filter depending on how many instruments are in the song, the figures I gave are just examples and If I have an electric and accoustic in the song then automatically I tend to cut the lows on the accoustic and I find that anything below 30hz on the bass trak is just rumble, my opinion, and just interferes with the kick.
In relation to the reverb question I was just wondering what other pepole do mostly with regards reverb and delay on vocal.

 

[sausy1981]

In reply to john on mixing to hot and tracking too hot.
I read your article that you posted as a reply to a thread I posted before and did an experiment, As I've said I use a br800 as my interface into sonar producer x1 and when I'm tracking, whatever my br800 meter reads its exactly the same as what the meters say in my daw, Anyway back to my experiment, In one of my projects I had recorded my tracks with a maximum peak of -6db or thereabouts and kept it at this when setting my channel gains for mixing, what I did was attenuate the signal in the mixer of my daw so that the -6db signal coming in was -12db when my channel fader was at 0, I then did a very quick level and pan mix and was astounded at the difference, I am converted as I've always read the hotter the signal the better but this simply isnt true. I'm now eager to start from scratch on a few projects and track with my peak signal at -12db and keep it at that for mixing. John you've opened my eyes, Thank you very much, but I have another noob question, when I use plugins should I always use the output gain to attentuate the signal to what it was before I inserted the plugin?

 

[mixsit]

Cool, So if -6db is too hot what should I track and mix with, I've been reading that somewhere between -15db and -10db is ok but will that not make my mix sound lifeless? The br800 I'm using allows me to record 24 bit so thats what I use? And after I track what levels should I have in the mixer on the daw, the same as I track them??? At -15 to -10? It'd be cool to get this right?

I'd be curious how many like to do that step #1' prep.
I figure my record target level is -18 to -24 or so range for the average/RMS/body of the signal. The headroom above is for the peaks.
If I'm in that range unless you like it as a house keeping/work method.. step 1' is -has already been- taken care of.
Would most faders in a mix end up at zero? (if you didn't align them there with the trim?

 

[mixsit]

I see you're in Sonar just thought I'd mention, I use their input meaters at tracking- their 'RMS +Peak and -24db scale. Drops right in for a nice visual on the target range.

 

[Massive Master]

John you've opened my eyes, Thank you very much, but I have another noob question, when I use plugins should I always use the output gain to attentuate the signal to what it was before I inserted the plugin?

Not necessarily -- Sort of depends on what the plug is doing. But it's not really needed if you're only talking a dB or two difference.

 

[sausy1981]

Not necessarily -- Sort of depends on what the plug is doing. But it's not really needed if you're only talking a dB or two difference.

Thanks John, I've completely re-recorded all the parts for 2 songs in the last 2 days using -12 db as my peak value, and it's amazing how much better the songs sound even with just a level and pan mix, This is my final question for though before I really start to mix, what level should my master out bus be peaking at before I export the mix for the mastering stage.

 

[Massive Master]

"Some headroom" is about the best I could suggest. Personally? I tend to shoot for something peaking below -3dBFS and somewhere above -20dBFS.

And glad it's working out -- Not that I'm at all surprised...

 

[sausy1981]

"Some headroom" is about the best I could suggest. Personally? I tend to shoot for something peaking below -3dBFS and somewhere above -20dBFS.

And glad it's working out -- Not that I'm at all surprised...

Thanks again John, I've lots of re-recording and mixing to do now that should keep me going for about a month, Your advice has been a revolution to me, every book I've read on home recording has always suggested getting the signal as hot as possible without clipping at each part of the signal chain. But with this way there seems to be a lot more room for each instrument and the mix still sounds big, bigger in fact. I've been recording for the last 6 years and this peice of information along with the experiments I've done with it have been some of the most valuable things I've learned.

 

[Massive Master]

every book I've read on home recording has always suggested getting the signal as hot as possible without clipping at each part of the signal chain.

I was noticing that myself. I wish I could figure out what the hell they were thinking...