All The Rage
- Thread starter macle
- Start date
I listened on laptop speakers, M ... so my first comment is it needs more bass! 
I'll give it a spin tomorrow in the studio when I'm back on that system. A question still arose from what I could glean from the mix I heard (which even on laptop was good).
"What did you use for horns?" I find horns to be the hardest to get to sound natural ... and your arrangement here got them sounding "like they should" ... so I'm curious.
Relative to song craft (which stands outside production issues), I really liked your end change up. It's hard to take something in a completely different direction and make that sort of transition seem seamless and a natural extension of what came before it ... but you did it well.
I'll chirp in later on the rest -- but that's what first struck me on this listening system.
I'll give it a spin tomorrow in the studio when I'm back on that system. A question still arose from what I could glean from the mix I heard (which even on laptop was good).
"What did you use for horns?" I find horns to be the hardest to get to sound natural ... and your arrangement here got them sounding "like they should" ... so I'm curious.
Relative to song craft (which stands outside production issues), I really liked your end change up. It's hard to take something in a completely different direction and make that sort of transition seem seamless and a natural extension of what came before it ... but you did it well.
I'll chirp in later on the rest -- but that's what first struck me on this listening system.
aaronmcoleman
The truth is out there!
I really like the song it's pretty cool.
I don't have much bad to say...If I heard this on a CD (what are those anyway?) I'd wouldn't think it was homemade.
I might bring the tamborine down some. All the sounds are great.
What different stuff did you guys do?
I don't have much bad to say...If I heard this on a CD (what are those anyway?) I'd wouldn't think it was homemade.
I might bring the tamborine down some. All the sounds are great.
What different stuff did you guys do?
chuckduffy
Well-known member
Hey macle - drums sound more compressed, not as present and at a lower level than some of your other stuff. vocals are down from your usual - not riding out front. don't necessarily know if these are good or bad things, may be exactly what you are going for. seems like some lower mid buildup like the last mix. again kinda missing that top end sheen i love in your stuff. anyway - very cool stuff. love all the accessory stuff you have coming and going.
Listening in the studio this morning, and this must have been a tough dense mix to work with. I'm now not so certain your "horns" are horns.
I can tell you've given more mix focus to the guitars ... because they dominate and drive the sound ... but they are overwhelming the complex vocals. Not that that's wrong (like CD said above), but there is a competition occurring and the vocals aren't winning it.
Because of the density of sound, there is a slight clarity issue ... but again, with so much going on ... it's hard to focus in on any one thing. I, too, like the ear candy you liberally strew about.
Good stuff, M. Any nit picking would be simply different mix decisions I might have made.
I can tell you've given more mix focus to the guitars ... because they dominate and drive the sound ... but they are overwhelming the complex vocals. Not that that's wrong (like CD said above), but there is a competition occurring and the vocals aren't winning it.
Because of the density of sound, there is a slight clarity issue ... but again, with so much going on ... it's hard to focus in on any one thing. I, too, like the ear candy you liberally strew about.
Good stuff, M. Any nit picking would be simply different mix decisions I might have made.
My first listen I thought everything was fine as it is... but hearing it for the second time about 15 mins later, I too agree that the vocals might be a little quiet. It all depends on what kind of sound you're going for though. In my opinion, the background vocals in the intro are a little quiet, and would sound great boosted up to the forefront (not too dramatically of course). Then when the lead vocals starts the first verse it's just sort of behind the rest of the sound. It's as if you kind of have to "search" for it.
Like I said, I liked it as it was my first listen, and it all depends on what kind of sound the producer/band is going for. One thing I was taught though, is that the human ear naturally searches for a human voice over all other sounds. What I'm trying to say is that if your vocals aren't prominent enough, the listener may have to "search" for the vocals and may be distracted by instruments and begin to dislike the song. Not because it's a bad song, or because the instruments are bad, but because of the way the human ear naturally wants to hear sound.
I hope I explained that in a way that made sense. The performances of the instruments and vocals are fantastic. What I'm saying is not a knock on the instruments by any means. Just trying to explain why I think the vocals should be a little more prominent in the mix.
Haha. I'll quit rambling now.
Like I said, I liked it as it was my first listen, and it all depends on what kind of sound the producer/band is going for. One thing I was taught though, is that the human ear naturally searches for a human voice over all other sounds. What I'm trying to say is that if your vocals aren't prominent enough, the listener may have to "search" for the vocals and may be distracted by instruments and begin to dislike the song. Not because it's a bad song, or because the instruments are bad, but because of the way the human ear naturally wants to hear sound.
I hope I explained that in a way that made sense. The performances of the instruments and vocals are fantastic. What I'm saying is not a knock on the instruments by any means. Just trying to explain why I think the vocals should be a little more prominent in the mix.
Haha. I'll quit rambling now.
macle
New member
Kev-Funny about the horns. That's me on saxophone. I got very frustrated with fake horns (and all fake stuff), so I got a sax on ebay and learned enough to do fairly simple horn bits. Odd that now your not sure! On these (Mates) songs, I did have a lot of trouble making them work, and most of them are sort of Frankenstein productions, where I re-did a lot of stuff a number of times, completely re-doing arrangements and everything, piecing together different bits from different versions. Thanks a lot for checking it out, appreciate it.
aaronmcoleman-Thanks very much! The different stuff is here and here. It's really all the same, and yet somehow not. It's sort of the mystery of home recording I think.
chuckduffy-Hey chuck! I wonder what the deal is with the high end sheen? Are you sure you're thinking of my stuff?
I was trying to go for a sort of 70's glam rock thing, but modernized somehow. I really think that the stuff I recorded using the Mackie 400f just seems thinner to me, and harder to mix. Just something unsatisfying in the sound. I kind of wish I could re-do them, but I've already done that a ton!! Thanks a lot for the feedback!
adema1226-I hear what you're saying about the vocals. I think I was trying to bury them!! I suppose I was trying to not have the music sound weak. I think in 70s mixes the vocals were often sort of buried or not as loud as they are these days, but maybe I've gone too far with that. Thanks very much for listening!
PDP- Thanks a lot, I appreciate it!
aaronmcoleman-Thanks very much! The different stuff is here and here. It's really all the same, and yet somehow not. It's sort of the mystery of home recording I think.
chuckduffy-Hey chuck! I wonder what the deal is with the high end sheen? Are you sure you're thinking of my stuff?
I was trying to go for a sort of 70's glam rock thing, but modernized somehow. I really think that the stuff I recorded using the Mackie 400f just seems thinner to me, and harder to mix. Just something unsatisfying in the sound. I kind of wish I could re-do them, but I've already done that a ton!! Thanks a lot for the feedback!adema1226-I hear what you're saying about the vocals. I think I was trying to bury them!! I suppose I was trying to not have the music sound weak. I think in 70s mixes the vocals were often sort of buried or not as loud as they are these days, but maybe I've gone too far with that. Thanks very much for listening!
PDP- Thanks a lot, I appreciate it!
chuckduffy
Well-known member
chuckduffy-Hey chuck! I wonder what the deal is with the high end sheen? Are you sure you're thinking of my stuff?
macle - i can probably be more specific. Later on I will listen and pick out a couple of your tunes that have what I am referring to. But I am mostly talking about stuff in the air , 12 k and up. you may have even been using a plug for this. For example - I think you have a uad card. Sometimes I use the pultec and dial in 12 k, bw around 4 and juice it about 2 - 3db on acoustics, overheads, or sometimes even the master post any compression to bring some sparkle back...
Coming back for my third listen, I seem to have gone back to my original thought - everything is fine as it is. It sounds heavily influenced by ELO, and I mean that in a good way! I love ELO, and their mixes are exactly as you just described.
Once again, it all depends on what kind of sound you are going for. I might tweak the vocals up a bit only because of the amount of people that have suggested that... but you certainly accomplished the sound you were going for, and look at how successful ELO was and still is today. If you're happy with it, keep it as it is.
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
vocals way too low, no matter what decade's recording you're trying to emulate. For pop music like this, even in a Beatlistic/ELO style, you gotta hear what you're singing.
Like your other stuff (or mates), it's the song that's the winner in most cases versus production that many nowadays rely on to make things listenable.
Fun listen and I have to admit, makes me think back when I couldn't wait to get the newest CD of a favorite group I liked, when it came out. Music was music and every now and then, some "Jimmy Page" would make you go..."wow..great sound"... but mostly it was the music.
Like your other stuff (or mates), it's the song that's the winner in most cases versus production that many nowadays rely on to make things listenable.
Fun listen and I have to admit, makes me think back when I couldn't wait to get the newest CD of a favorite group I liked, when it came out. Music was music and every now and then, some "Jimmy Page" would make you go..."wow..great sound"... but mostly it was the music.
macle
New member
chuck-That'd be great if you could, as I'm curious about that. I am always changing and searching, and I think I did used to add high end all over the place as brighter always seems better. But then I felt that was a mistake, maybe I need to split the difference! I do think the Mackie 400f is brighter/thinner, so things tend to get harsh as opposed to sheen.
adema1226-Thanks a lot for listening again. It does seem to be the consensus that the vocals need to come up!. ELO is cool. People often say my stuff sounds like them, which is weird because I don't really ever listen to them. Nevertheless, that's great, thanks very much!
mixmkr-Hey, how ya doing! Thanks a lot, I appreciate that very much!
adema1226-Thanks a lot for listening again. It does seem to be the consensus that the vocals need to come up!. ELO is cool. People often say my stuff sounds like them, which is weird because I don't really ever listen to them. Nevertheless, that's great, thanks very much!
mixmkr-Hey, how ya doing! Thanks a lot, I appreciate that very much!
This song is Great! I love complex songs done well so you can listen numerous times and find new stuff each time. Was not expecting that kind of ending to the song. I listened 2x with headphones I wouldn't change anything in the mix.
This is why I like coming here sometimes you can find a real gem of a song that you would never hear on the radio.
This is why I like coming here sometimes you can find a real gem of a song that you would never hear on the radio.
macle
New member
Thanks jasgav!
Macle, great tune (as always!) You said you were going for a 70's glam rock thing, modernized -- I think you definitely achieved that! When I heard the chord progression of the "All The Rage" vocal, it reminded me of a song from Rocky Horror... I youtubed it and found what I was thinking of -- Hot Patootie, Bless My Soul by Meatloaf. Here's a link (chorus is at :32 in).
Hot Patootie - Bless My Soul - YouTube
I would definitely call that 70's glam rock. After reading the various comments about your vocals being too low, I think it might not be a volume thing as much as an EQ thing. Maybe add a touch more hi-mids to the center vocals to brighten them and bring them out in front a little more. The sax riff in the chorus fits perfectly, by the way; ties the two repeated phrases together nicely.
Keep up the great work - I'm so glad I found your new posts on here!
Hot Patootie - Bless My Soul - YouTube
I would definitely call that 70's glam rock.
After reading the various comments about your vocals being too low, I think it might not be a volume thing as much as an EQ thing. Maybe add a touch more hi-mids to the center vocals to brighten them and bring them out in front a little more. The sax riff in the chorus fits perfectly, by the way; ties the two repeated phrases together nicely.Keep up the great work - I'm so glad I found your new posts on here!
macle
New member
Macle, great tune (as always!) You said you were going for a 70's glam rock thing, modernized -- I think you definitely achieved that! When I heard the chord progression of the "All The Rage" vocal, it reminded me of a song from Rocky Horror... I youtubed it and found what I was thinking of -- Hot Patootie, Bless My Soul by Meatloaf. Here's a link (chorus is at :32 in).
Hot Patootie - Bless My Soul - YouTube
I would definitely call that 70's glam rock.
Keep up the great work - I'm so glad I found your new posts on here!
Hey leahkim, how ya doing? Thanks a lot! I don't know that Rocky Horror song, although I must have heard it because I've seen that movie, and I did sort of have that in mind. Also mostly Elton John, Paul McCartney and Wings, and maybe Sweet, Marc Bolan/T.Rex and David Bowie. Love all that stuff.