All-purpose headphones? Wisdom needed

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matthew_a

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Hey folks, so I'm looking to pick up some headphones. Thing is, I'm a typical home recordist; I play the parts and mix them later, and also prefer some nice phones for personal listening. So basically, I'm wanting to find a pair of headphones that can reasonably manage all these jobs; instrument tracking, comparison against monitors for mixing and potentially mastering, and personal listening. I understand that this could be too good of an idea to be true, especially since I'm hoping to keep my budget under around $200 but am willing to considering opinions on higher-end models. I'm looking at the AKG line, and they seem to try to group their models by use. Any thoughts on a decent all-around model? Thanks for reading my long, over-worded post ;)

Matthew
 
Depends on what you call good enough. Almost all headphones will be lacking in the low end. Which could hide certain noises, wind, handling, microphone rattle. So it's no substitute for real monitors.

Stax for audio detail.
Something like an HD-280 for closed cans for multi-tracking.
Open cans for long durations of headphone listening.

Each uniquely different. I tend to stick with closed cans. I don't wear them much so they don't need to breathe to keeps my head dry. And I'm generally needing to keep the monitoring out of the mix. And generally near the sound source (pretty loud) so the closed cans helps to isolate what I monitor versus what's going on in the room. And sometimes as make shift ear plugs without putting anything in my ears. To each their own though.
 
Headphones are relatively decent for personal listening and that's pretty much it. Certainly not for mixing, most definitely not for mastering. You're guaranteed to make some of the most "unusual" adjustments ever working on headphones.

If you're just trying to hear what's going on, there you go. If you're actually trying to "get something done" then forget it. The best headphones in the world are fairly worthless at that point.
 
If you're just trying to hear what's going on, there you go. If you're actually trying to "get something done" then forget it. The best headphones in the world are fairly worthless at that point.

Another great post, John.

Ciro
 
Headphones, and apparently how we relate to them is even stranger than the relationship with speakers it seems to me. Every one I've heard (or own, K240, MDR7506, HD280, some others -Beyer DT770 was the other one I forgot) has come with 'highly recommended', 'flattest/’truest (!) or some other form of rave at some point blah blah blah.. :) Not.
With that out of the way, I keep coming back to the 240’s. They strike me as a generally natural mid range perspective/balance similar to non-hype style monitors, easy on the head, though lacking in deep bass. I hear more and different info on the low end with the Sony’s- but they remind me of ‘pre-eq’d hype (4311’s maybe? Ick.
Anywho, there you go, $0.02 worth.

Don’t forget Harvie’s MoreMe’ phones for the ‘troops.
http://www.itrstudio.com/moreme.html
 
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You want flat so those tracking can hear themselves accuratly...its more of a control thing than anything else...Id like to hear more about Harveys cans.
 
The OP asked for an under $200 headphone that is versatile for mixing, critical listening, comparison to monitors, not to be talked out of using headphones. I agree mixing with headphones is not a good idea, but to answer the original question, I repeat, the Audio Technica ATH-M50 is a great set at a great price.
Here's a good thread if you want more reading on them.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-m...udio-technica-ath-m50-headphones-awesome.html

+1 for the M50s. Good headphones definitely have their place in many home studios, especially when family members or neighbors aren't as interested in our music as we are. We do what we gotta do, sigh, but no argument--good monitors hold a higher place in the chain.
 
I mix and master on monitors exclusively, and if anyone in my house has a problem with it, they can go to the mall for a couple'a hours..! :D
 
You want flat so those tracking can hear themselves accurately...its more of a control thing than anything else...I'd like to hear more about Harvey's cans.
You're talking about the MoreMe's, right? Well, they ain't flat by any means and there's a reason why most headphones aren't flat, regardless of price. When you put something over your ear, it creates a small air chamber and the size of that chamber varies from person to person. That chamber (i.e., your ear) determines the final sound you hear and it will be different for each person wearing headphones. That's why we recommend that people don't mix or master on headphones; if the mix translates at all, it's most likely due to dumb luck rather than accuracy.

Having said that, there are some valid reasons for tracking and rough mixing using headphones: lack of bleed, isolation, and rough level adjustments are the most common. For tracking, it's important for musicians to hear their part. That usually means you want headphones that have some midrange lift to hear the overtones, without a lot of bass or fatiguing top end. And for rock, they gotta be loud. And for studio use, they gotta be rugged. That's what the MoreMe's are all about.

Rough mixes are a different story; you want headphones that will get you close, but all headphones lie, especially when it comes to the vocal and reverb levels. Usually, if the vocal and reverb levels sound right in the headphones, the vocal level is probably too low, and the reverb level is probably too high.

For rough mixes, I use the cheap Sennheiser HD-201's; good enough for roughs. I don't like the Grados because they make everything sound too good. Any of the Sennheisers will work fine, and the ATHM50's are getting rave reviews for accurate bass.

So, that's my take on headphones. Loud and rugged for tracking is important. For listening to mixes, more bottom end and smooth highs are important, but all headphones will fool you, so be extra careful when evaluating mixes on headphones.
 
Id only have them out for tracking...but what about bleeding into overheads when its for a loud rock tune.
 
Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I looked into the ATH M50's and ended up picking those up. Thanks for the tip Guitar Zero. Should arrive within a day or three, I'll give some feedback once they burn in. And just fyi, I'm not a n00b to recording/tracking/mixing (I just happen to have a limited budget these days). I'm aware that mixing or mastering with headphones is looked on with disdain by the pros/forum gurus. But I happen to be passionate enough about what I do to experiment and devise my own preferences on how to get good sounds; and notice, I said "for comparison against monitors for mixing", I never said I was planning on using these headphones for a full mix.

By the way, an interesting read on a related subject,

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/how-equalize-your-headphones-tutorial-413900/
 
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Nice article on headphone EQ. Thanks.
Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I looked into the ATH M50's and ended up picking those up. Thanks for the tip Guitar Zero. Should arrive within a day or three, I'll give some feedback once they burn in. And just fyi, I'm not a n00b to recording/tracking/mixing (I just happen to have a limited budget these days). I'm aware that mixing or mastering with headphones is looked on with disdain by the pros/forum gurus. But I happen to be passionate enough about what I do to experiment and devise my own preferences on how to get good sounds; and notice, I said "for comparison against monitors for mixing", I never said I was planning on using these headphones for a full mix.

By the way, an interesting read on a related subject,

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/how-equalize-your-headphones-tutorial-413900/
 
Well, of course, the original issue is settled- the OP got his cans. May they serve you well! There's 4 times I use cans. First is for tracking, whether initial tracks with a click, or overdubs. The second is for personal listening in a noisy environment- airplanes, train stations, etc. The third is to get some idea what I'm getting in a remote setting, whether it be orchestral music, Reggae, or bird songs of North America. The last one is, yes- I check mixes in cans. I don't mean that I *mix* using cans, except the working rough mix when tracking. Sorry- I don't have a control room yet- Send more money, Mom. What I do mean is that headphones are one of the media I would like a mix to sound good on, 'cause yeah, the end user will put it into his MP-3 player, if I get lucky, and Hell, my Mom might do the same thing. I listen to a finished mix on studio phones, cheap ear buds, a boom box, a good home stereo, a cheap home stereo, and finally, in a car. And I forgot- in mono, because they really might play you on AM radio. It has happened to me.

OK- For the first one, tracking, I need cans that *isolate*. What you are tracking is critical. Big rock band? Go ahead, click your damn click. But- solo hammer dulcimer or harp, you need to *attenuate* that damn click. The orchestral people don't *want* the evil click, thank you very much. I track a lot of delicate stuff- mandolin, etc., and I must have superior isolation. Comfort would be good, but I'll give up a bit of it to get isolation. It gets worse for overdubs, because you have to suppress percussion, and its pesky low frequencies. This can be an issue tracking old drummers. Their hearing is going, and you have to crank the click track so they can hear it.

For the second,airplanes, etc., it's the same deal, in reverse. I want to isolate *myself* from ambient noise. And no, I don't go for this trendy noise cancellation by phasing. Comfort is cool here also, but how long is the flight? Who cares? Sound quality becomes more important here- does it sound *good* as opposed to the truth?

For the third use, remote recording-isolation becomes less important, unless it's picky, like orchestral work. Mostly, I want comfort and good sound here. Often, remote recording is pleasure work, like those bird songs, or working work, like-"we need the sound at Kenmore Square at midnight on a Saturday" for a radio play. You may have to wear the cans for a long time, in a variety of weather. In January, you ask, "how warm are they?".

For the last, checking mixes, I don't need isolation. I've got some BOSE headphones that are good for that- because they sound like the average Bozo's headphones.

Fly in ointment- not all heads were created equal, and the comfort level and even the isolation is affected by ergonomics. The cans must fit the head.
In the end, I use mostly Sennheiser HD280's, A couple pairs of SONY's 'cause the Sennheiser's can be tight on folks with larger heads, to the point of annoyance. And I've got a few sets of the More Me's for when I need extra phones. Their isolation is only fair, and although they feel cheap, they are comfortable enough, and as Harvey says- they don't break much.

What does this mean? *Don't* buy any phones you haven't worn for about 5 minutes or more. Don't buy based solely on recommendations! But my recommendation is the HD280's, just for their superior isolation- on the order of 32db's.-Richie
 
I always enjoy Richie's thoughtful posts, but I just want to offer some congrats, Matthew. The M50s are great, and it's always nice to know what the OP decides to do. Head over to the AT site to learn more about your new cans.
 
+1 for the HD-280s. I don't own a more expensive pair, so I can't really say they're "the best for the money" (since your budget is 200), but I swear by them, and I've worn them for hours and hours before I start to notice my hears getting tired.
 
I got my HD-280's because they were < $100 on craigslist. And my Sony MDR V-600's are over a decade old. Although I must concur that they are a tight fit on big mellons. The sony's are much more comfortable. I've fallen asleep with the sony's on. I can't really wear the senn's for more than ten minutes at a time.
 
Guys, I just noticed that the M50s have dropped in price lately--under $100 on ebay and around $125 from retailers. As someone who's used and enjoyed my Senn 280s for many years, and who's used both models of the Sonys mentioned, I urge you to audition the M50s when you need some new cans. IMHO, the sound is significantly better, especially the deep, tight lows. But tastes vary, I know. By the way, the M50s are not quite as snug on the head as the Senns--good or bad, depending on head size--which means a bit less isolation than the Senns in my case.
 
Yup, I picked up my M50's from ebay for $90 new, best offer. I was pretty pleased with the price.
 
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