alice in chains vocals

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tomb

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im not sure if this is the right group or not, but here it goes. what effects do they use for the alice in chains vocals. i know there are two harmony parts, but there is somthing about it. i was listening to the new staind cd, and they have a song called layn. which was of course about staleys death, but they have the exact sound of the old alice in chains vocals. i am new to recording, and i figured out how to get freat sounds out of the guitars, drums and bass, but the vocals i just cant hit. ive tried 60 condensor mics al lthe way up to a 600 dollar mic. i get a pretty good sound but you can tell it was recorded at home. i get studio qality on everything else. so i guess all im looking for is waht effects should i try. ive tried reverb and everyone tells me its to much. thanks in advance. you guys rock.
 
I think the sound of Staley and Cantrells' voices have as much to do with the equation as the pro equiptment it was recorded with.
 
well im gonna agree with ya on that except for on thing. aaron lewis does not have the layne staley voice but the sound is there. maybe you should check out the song layne and you will see what im talking about.
 
I can't speak with authority about effects or equipment, but if you've tried several different condensors and still can't get good a good vocal sound, perfecting the AIC vocal sound should be the least of your concerns.

Having said that, I believe the signature AIC vocal "sound" was the perfect fourth harmonies Layne and Jerry sang. That may be what you are missing. Try harmonizing your vocals with a perfect fourth interval (2 & 1/2 steps). For example, if one part is singing an A the other part is singing a D.

Cheers!
 
I'm not familiar with the song you're talking about, but I can tell you a lot of the A&C vocal sound had to do with the harmonies. It's the arrangement, and Cantrell had a lot more to do with it than you'd think. There were always eerie minor chords with as much as 4-5 layers of vocal going on, even if you couldn't hear them -- they were there and that was the sound. Sometimes their vocal harmony arrangements almost sounded like Queen, there was so much going on.
 
tomb said:
im not sure if this is the right group or not, but here it goes. what effects do they use for the alice in chains vocals. i know there are two harmony parts, but there is somthing about it. i was listening to the new staind cd, and they have a song called layn. which was of course about staleys death, but they have the exact sound of the old alice in chains vocals. i am new to recording, and i figured out how to get freat sounds out of the guitars, drums and bass, but the vocals i just cant hit. ive tried 60 condensor mics al lthe way up to a 600 dollar mic. i get a pretty good sound but you can tell it was recorded at home. i get studio qality on everything else. so i guess all im looking for is waht effects should i try. ive tried reverb and everyone tells me its to much. thanks in advance. you guys rock.
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Ask the man himself. Bryan and Dave Jerden were the 2 that really molded the AIC vocal recordings. You never know what he might say. In the past Ive actually had about 50/50 by blind questions being launched via email. Paul Gilbert is one dude that did not answer my question but Steve Vai has on several occasions.

http://www.bryancarlstrom.com/index.html

SoMm
 
You guys are not listening to his question. He's not asking about the vocals, or their voice, or harmony, but the effects applied to them.

I know what you're talking about, tomb, but I don't know the answer. They do use distortion on a lot of their vocals, and possibly some other effect. I haven't listened to them in a while so I'll have to go back and check it out to see if I can figure it out.
 
So vocal layering, and particularly layering of several harmonies in minor chords . . . then keeping it low enough in the mix so as to be barely heard -- is somehow not an effect?
 
Yes, but I believe AIC applies some sort of filter over the voices and possibly some distortion in some of their songs.

I think we all understand AIC uses harmonies - that's the easy part. Above and beyond that, though, they are using other FX.
 
bsanfordnyc said:
You guys are not listening to his question. He's not asking about the vocals, or their voice, or harmony, but the effects applied to them.
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Damn dude, who made you the answer police?

If a particular harmony is a key component of a signature sound, don't you think that is important and relevant information to include in an answer?

The "spirit" of Tomb's question was how to obtain the signature AIC vocal sound. Chessrock and I suggested that Tomb might have better luck obtaining that sound if he focused on the harmonies rather than the effects (in fact, I even gave a specific harmonic interval he could work with). Those are legitimate and HELPFUL responses.

I guess if it makes you feel better to police people's answers... then go right ahead. But at least respond with information that might actually be HELPFUL.
 
tomb said:
well im gonna agree with ya on that except for on thing. aaron lewis does not have the layne staley voice but the sound is there. maybe you should check out the song layne and you will see what im talking about.
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Sorry, I read your post quickly and misunderstood what you were after. I think Chessrock hit it right on the head, lots of layers. If you listen through monitors, you can here lots of doubled parts and harmonies, some of which are very low in the mix. I hear quite a bit of verb on Laynes' voice, also.
 
Scottgman said:
Damn dude, who made you the answer police?

If a particular harmony is a key component of a signature sound, don't you think that is important and relevant information to include in an answer?

The "spirit" of Tomb's question was how to obtain the signature AIC vocal sound. Chessrock and I suggested that Tomb might have better luck obtaining that sound if he focused on the harmonies rather than the effects (in fact, I even gave a specific harmonic interval he could work with). Those are legitimate and HELPFUL responses.

I guess if it makes you feel better to police people's answers... then go right ahead. But at least respond with information that might actually be HELPFUL.
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Sorry if I made you think I was policing answers. Not my style! I just thought that tomb already knew about the harmonies, and was asking specifically about the distortion/FX AIC uses in some songs.

Cheers,

Ben
 
It's all good. But this thread got me wondering where I read about the perfect fourth harmonies (my ears aren't trained enough to name a harmony I hear). Anyway, I looked in my Alice in Chains Music Bank box set and here is what the book says on page 2:

They also showcased Layne and Jerry's signature fourth interval harmonies which would come to define the band's and a whole generation's sound.
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I play a few acoustic AIC songs with a couple of friends who are talented singers. They nail the harmonies and rarely use vocal effects but it sounds just like that AIC "sound."

Anyway, good luck Tomb!
 
I think I know what he's after.

Could it be that what he's after is just the as simple as doubling the vocal? Give this a try.

Record your vocal once all the way through then record the same vocal on another track in the same pitch and manner. So you end up with a two performances of the same vocal in the same pitch and melody.

The sound that the two vocals make together is an effect in itself and maybe, just maybe this is what he's trying to achieve. Just a thought.

Good luck,
sonicpaint
 
actually i knew about the harmonies. i know they are doign that, but maybe its the low ones i can barely hear that add that effect. if you listen to a&c anf the stsind song layne, the first thing that sticks out is the harmonies, but still to me there is somthing else there to add that sound. me and some buds do the same thing playing acoustic alice in chains. i have recorded harmonies by myself which sounded ok, but it seems nice to have two different vocalist doing it. thanks for all your replies. also thanks for the advice about the how to do the harmonies. i have always done them, but i never understood it al lthe way. but i messed with the piano last night sining in each key. i will tinker with different effects till i find what does it. thanks all
 
I'm bringing this thread back from the dead, because I got a chance to listen to Staid today, and I made a point to listen to it REALLY carefully because of this thread.

And it's pretty obvious that there really aren't any special effects going on. Actually less effects than a lot of stuff I hear these days.

What you're hearing isn't so much the fact that they're harmonizing or layering. It's in the types of chords they're using (minor) and the way they're arranged. It's very signature and very AIC. I'm not a music major so I can't tell you anything about the theory behind it like "It's always an A-minor 7th that diminishes in to a 4th" or any of that crap. :D

But it always seems to be centered around a three-part harmony with the middle an high parts doubled/tripled. The lowest part is rarely doubled, but it's always the minor note . . . or the note that makes the chord minor or whatever. And the upper two intervals are very constant . . . like it's the very same two intervals on just about all of their songs, and they always seem to resolve themsleves in a similar manner. Like a half-step down rather than a full-step and like it never really "resolves" if that makes any sense.
 
Well as you can probably tell by my name I'm a big AIC fan. That's also the reason I did some AIC covers some time ago.
Imo, what makes their vocals so special is Layne's nasal voice and the fourth interval harmonies with Jerry, as already metioned above. Other then some slight reverb on both parts I really don't think there's any effect or that much vocal layers used, since their distinct sound can also be heard on their unplugged session. In some songs however Layne's part is heavily distorted while Jerry's is kept clean.

Anyways, here are some of my efforts to capture that sound, I know I didn't nail them but I'm pretty happy with how they turned out:


 
wow Laynestaley, that's pretty good.. .

thoroughly enjoyed it... good job.
 
I use a digitech studio vocalist. It's capable of getting e right wher I need to be to get the AIC sound, I have the ability to mimic other singers voices that are in my vocal range and that makes a difference. Rest assured anyone who gets even close to AIC vocal harmony signature is using some sort of harmony effects processor. It's a given.
 
Joboo1966 said:
I use a digitech studio vocalist. It's capable of getting e right wher I need to be to get the AIC sound, I have the ability to mimic other singers voices that are in my vocal range and that makes a difference. Rest assured anyone who gets even close to AIC vocal harmony signature is using some sort of harmony effects processor. It's a given.
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That is cheating, in a bad way. And to be quite honest IMO, BS. I bet it sounds great to you, but that is not how it is achieved.

The way to get the AIC sound, is to be AIC. There is no effect that gets anyone there. It is just pure good harmonizing, with two voices that combine together in the special way that they do. There is also the million dollar studio that records it....


We try to achieve types of sounds like that here in the home recording community, and find ways to get close. But, there is no better answer that can be given here, than having actual voices that do what Lane or other dood do with Cantrel. It is what they created by doing it.

You cannot create a 'sound' of others, without being them. You could search all day to find what effects the producer used, but in the end you would find it has nothing to do with added effects.

My peace said.

R.I.P. Layne....
 
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